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Zzz's First Ruleset Evaluation and

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wtZzz
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2008, 04:32:02 am »

yeah wtf

its WTa and WTF
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stelzig
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2008, 06:58:03 am »

Bomb squad isn't perk 2, it is perk 1. And if it is so easy to place them around corners so people can't spot them then obviously bomb squad is very useful. Especially if you use bomb squad and deep impact so you can destroy them through walls even. (probably easiest if you use a shotgun or something you can spray alot with since it'll probably be hard to aim right at it through the wall Tongue)
Btw zzz, as you said most things have counters in this game. That includes your behated launcher as said previously. Flak jacket takes care of it effectively (also being a perk 1)
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2008, 07:18:19 am »

On the betty issue, I use bomb squad on perk 1 and it is really beneficial.  And I don't know what you are talking about An, but I never have an issue blowing up betties without missing and I use mp40 and don't use the iron sights.

But I thought of another good argument in favor of using streaks.  It is that the scoring system is really crappy rewarding kills and not penalizing for deaths (yes, I understand that if you constantly die it does reward the other team ultimately).  But it has to do with the style of play.  You are more likely to run around like a headless chicken trying to mow people down if there was no benefit for playing deliberately and tactically in order to obtain the perks.  So getting dogs just benefits a more strategic style of play to counter the fact that a guy can score tons of points by going 35-32.  The dogs should close the gap and benefit the guy who is 24-4 but is playing smart.
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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2008, 09:29:03 am »

I find the scoring system pretty good in this game actually since it demotes camping which otherwise is promted alot in this game. Above advantage promotes camping again. Not to mention that for you to be smart and go 7-0 the guy playing headless chicken would also have to not get ANY kills since otherwise you won't get that streak, meaning you shouldn't need that "perk" as a reward for playing that style. Tongue

(as you mentioned too dying does give points to the other team and since there's only 2 teams in a war the guy going 24-4 has still made a 200 points difference for the team in difference to the other guy who has only given his team 30 points. This is not a FFA - in case you never noticed btw MoH used the exact same system in teams Tongue - yes i compared to MoH now this must mean i want an MoH clone lololololol)

There's another way to reward such a guy "playing smart" too, but it would still be promoting camping - you could turn on lives so if you die say 5 times you're out of the game. Think it would be fun to try and play with such lives on too on ocassion, but don't think it should be a standard rule.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 09:38:21 am by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2008, 09:54:42 am »

flak jacket is perk 2
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2008, 10:10:36 am »

Eh, i was sure it was perk 1... Well i guess you now have the chance to "waste" perks on defending yourself from explosions, bouncing betties (bomb squad), AND fire all at once =0
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2008, 10:16:03 am »

You people don't find Bettys annoying because very few people are capable of placing them correctly. I played this 'Razor' kid the other day on the Wii version and he was somewhat capable of placing them well, and when I switched to a BS-enabled rifle class he basically became one-note.

Spawn, plant two Bettys, hip-fire StG, die. I don't care that half the Wii players are God awful, either way you're wasting a perk to counter only one thing in the game. That's broken.

I find it very hard to take any of you seriously and bring myself down to your level of thinking when you're complaining about an attachment that actually only has a third of the kill radius it did in the beta, and the priming speed is slightly longer, yet ignore the most impossibly stupid perk in the game that's basically the only perk 1 worth using in competitive play. You're wasting perk slots either way, if they aren't as valuable to you guys as there are in the 360 then I'm sorry. But still, the rifle grenade is hardly annoying and calling it broken is an inverse reflection of your incompetence. You could lag shoot in MoHH2, where it took more to kill someone. You all use fully-automatic weapons with SP that make your primary kill in two hits. In the time it takes a rifle grenade user to prime and fire a rocket, you could have delivered up to 12 hits on most guns (MP40-RoF). Usually a full, if not half a dual-mag SMG if he has to reload, prime again and fire.

So you have the opportunity to kill them 6, sometimes 9 times over. Get better.
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2008, 10:18:04 am »

Just FYI, Flak Jacket isn't some kind of magic perk that absolutely keeps from getting killed by explosives.  It just reduces the damage.  So if you are at 100% health a BB or Frag won't kill you.  But it will still damage you to the point that you are stunned and pretty much any bullet will kill you.  Still useful though
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« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2008, 10:21:10 am »

Unless the explosive user is using Fireworks (lol, Fireworks) you'll survive. Its basically Juggernaut to explosives.
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2008, 10:33:26 am »

Asswhistle I agree that Betties are annoying, possibly broken, and harder to deal with than they should be.  I find myself unloading half a clip to blow them up.  Hello there person on the second floor, don't mind me firing away like a mad man at your bouncing betty.  Please don't be in a prone position with your iron sights pointed straight at the top of the stairs waiting for the numbskull that just spent 5 seconds blowing up your trap.

But...rifle grenades are quite annoying as well.  I don't see why you are factoring in the "priming" time either.  People who use them attach the 'nade immediately upon spawning.  I fancy myself fairly accurate with my SMG, but pointing at my feet and pulling the trigger is faster than me firing from the hip.  And if it is your first nade, and you miss...the stun gives you enough time reload another nade and finish them.  Now, do these people typically score well?  No.  But it is still feels cheap to take a point and click instadeath.  I am going to beat the rifle nade most of the time...but you will still hear me cussing when they take me out those 2 or 3 times a match.
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« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2008, 10:43:03 am »

1-2 kills a death will never get your team recon, artillery, or dogs. They're only hurting themselves.
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« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2008, 11:13:28 am »

Bouncing betties i KNOW are perk 1 just like bomb squad so i don't see how you are wasting more on the counter than the attack. By putting on bomb squad you are basically neutralizing the other guys perk 1 making the other guy having wasted his perk 1 as well... Not only that, but you don't have to have bomb squad on all the time, you can just put it on a seperate class and switch to it in case there for once should be an annoying BB user in the opposition.

And while i'm undecided on the nadelaunchers as i haven't used or played against them much (those time i have played against them they didn't annoy me) the problem is more that they can go main the nade right away when spawning and wait till they find a target using it in a similar fashion to the bazooka in MoH except with more accurate "no scope" on range. At least that's the problem i'm quite sure people are getting at, and not that they have the option to put the nade on when/if they meet someone closerange.

"1-2 kills a death will never get your team recon, artillery, or dogs. They're only hurting themselves."

They can kill more people with one shot. They don't randomly die or lose their gun just because they ran out of nades either. And finally they can pick up another gun from one of the unlucky victims who ran into the uber-range shotty. <--- That is if it is as bad as people describes it. As i said i don't have much experience with it other than that vid Metroidcrime posted.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:24:00 am by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2008, 11:42:25 am »

No. Just, no. If you’re wasting a perk slot to counter one type of explosive, that’s broken. Will you be able to do ANYTHING to Bettys other than spot them? No. There’s only so many ways from one end of the map to the other, and a well placed Betty in a one-way building, or one-way path is basically unavoidable without triggering it (killing someone) or blowing it up (triggering it from afar). Deep Impact AND Bomb Squad is a waste of TWO perk slots to counter ONE way to die online. That’s broken. Or you pass up your perk 2 to survive them – the single most useful perk of any custom class, to survive one type of explosive, losing class versatility as a result. That’s broken. Sure, you can have one class with BS...BUT YOU’RE STILL WASTING AN ENTIRE CUSTOM CLASS TO DO SO, THAT’S BROKEN.

As for rifle grenades, lol. You’re acting like its some sort of trump card. Even if you walk around with it on your gun, you’re still vulnerable. Again, this goes back to the ‘lrn2shoot1st’ argument. Lag, lag lag. If you find that annoying, buy a console that’s actually capable of providing a decent online experience. Until then, don’t dissect the game logic until you’ve completely distorted the actual game. It’s not MoH, the rifle-grenade is in no way equal to the bazooka. They’re explosives, and you all get butt hurt when you die from them. End similarities. Rifles suck compared to SMGs, basically 99% of RG users on the Wii version die after firing both. We all know that 3>2, so there’s no kill streak benefit. If they pick up your SMG, it’s your fault for dying in the first place with the most effective class of weapon in hand. As for your multi-kill comment, lol. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Sure, you can kill more than one person with one shot. Is that likely to happen, given map size, low splash damage and the 4-player online? No. The only decent weapon with a rifle grenade is the G43. The rest are mediocre at best, especially bolt-actions. They’re completely outclassed by every other weapon in the game and the rifle-grenade is basically they’re only redeeming factor apart from the sniper scope. So lol, lol olol o lo o owwlwowoa awool aow owfl oefow gogloe olol oo ll lo. Bouncing Betty > Rifle Grenade in terms of unfairness. There isn’t a magical perk to defend you from RGs...but I have a suggestion.


Get better

If that doesn't work, you could always just cry moar.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:46:39 am by Wii Troopers. Join today! » Report Spam   Logged





stelzig
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« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2008, 01:00:52 pm »

I still don't see it. Alright with deep impact (unless you're a player who actually want deep impact for other reasons too...) but the other one i still don't see where you're going with. Alright say it is placed so crucially perfect that there's nothing you can do. Then simply don't do anything.  Problem solved. I can't think of any single spot where it'd be such a big problem though, but i'm sure by the next time i read this topic you'll have posted an endless amount of possibilites where i'll be helplessly owned by the explosives i can see from 10 miles away because they are placed so amazingly well and i'm such a scrub.

I'll accept that i'm overestimating the nadelauncher (although i'm hardly estimating it as i said i don't have much experience against it and none with it), but you sure as hell are also overestimating the BBs. Or maybe you are on purpose overestimating them simply to make a point? Wink

"Lag, lag lag. If you find that annoying, buy a console that’s actually capable of providing a decent online experience. Until then, don’t dissect the game logic until you’ve completely distorted the actual game. "

What i get from this quote is that the lag makes the nadelaunchers more powerful and because this isn't the case in other games it should be disregarded in the wii version? Sounds pretty dumb to me. If MoH didn't lag the bazooka that you didn't want me to compare it to would hardly be a problem either so i guess we should now go back and not just change it back to limit 1, but allow everyone to use it. Oh and in case you didn't notice i'll once again say i had no hard opinion on it yet anyway so how am i dissecting it? To me it seems more like you are anti-dissecting it for me questioning and speculating, and using the scrub point of view being: "If something's in the game, then it has to be fair so don't even THINK about turning this off".

Also skill isn't always needed to know alot about a game. Often the most skillfull players in games don't know as much about the metagame and balance as those who wants to get better and study the game.

Multi-shot sure yeah it's situational. I was merely making a point. It is my fault for dying? Alright let me laugh back at you here then. Why are you even arguing that 2<3 then? It's irellevant because he'll get 0<3. Why go ahead and say he will get those 2 because here you are clearly saying he won't? I said IF he can get those 2 he WILL also have 2 opportunities to switch to a new weapon. That is unless the player he went up against used the same weapon of course Roll Eyes

"The rest are mediocre at best, especially bolt-actions. They’re completely outclassed by every other weapon in the game and the rifle-grenade is basically they’re only redeeming factor apart from the sniper scope."

Oh and now you go back to say rifle nades aren't bad so in the end it is not entirely my fault if someone with it kill me Roll Eyes

I'd appreciate if you could try to showcase your knowledge about this game in a proper way instead of just coming off as arrogant with medicore unfinished arguments. But then again maybe your knowledge isn't really as good as you try to make it seem seeing as you also completely disregarded the problems i earlier put up about the reward people for doing well system which in your eyes is COMPLETELY FAIR. (and i vaguely remember someone IN that topic mentioning that these rewards aren't used in clanwars on your precious **** consoles either)

GET BRAIN

And if that doesn't work then just don't try to talk to people. Especially not to those who are not even actually whining about being killed by the gun in the first place. But alright if you didn't get brain i of course can't expect you to realise that i several times pointed out that i had yet to get pissed by being killed by a rifle nade. Nor can i expect you to understand that i don't main a MG even though i have said that so extremely many times already. I mainly use the shotguns. You know those guns where you also know the absolute and only good perk combinations to.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 01:23:49 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
aredd007
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« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2008, 01:49:40 pm »

Damn. These posts are way tooo long.
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