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Psychedelics the birth of Religion?

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Author Topic: Psychedelics the birth of Religion?  (Read 568 times)
Turboweasle
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« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2012, 08:42:27 pm »

yeah but 9 out of 10 internet atheists would definitely describe themselves as "believing in the non-existence of a God" as opposed to simply lacking believe in a God.

Highly doubt it.  Got a source for that?

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Thought it would be obvious that I was referring to Gnostic Atheism.

(Atheism is faith-based as well, don't listen to what others tell you)


It's called hyperbole dude. Didn't realize not putting the gnostic in front of atheism would offend you, my bad.

It's called not misrepresenting a group of people.  Didn't realize correcting your undeniably false statement would get you so defensive, my bad.

If you doubt that many Atheists think that way, go to any popular religion debate board on the internet and see for yourself.

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/faq#Strongvs.Weakatheism
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« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2012, 08:46:31 pm »

So correcting myself is being defensive? I guess should have said "no you're wrong". Would that have been less defensive? and im way too lazy to click any link Cheesy
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« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2012, 08:50:25 pm »

So correcting myself is being defensive?

No.  Saying "Well I'm right most of the time" and "Dude I totally meant this I thought that was obvious" is you being defensive.

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I guess should have said "no you're wrong". Would that have been less defensive?

Probably.

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and im way too lazy to click any link Cheesy

Then I'll assume you're going to concede your last assertion.
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« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2012, 09:01:18 pm »

So correcting myself is being defensive?

No.  Saying "Well I'm right most of the time" and "Dude I totally meant this I thought that was obvious" is you being defensive.

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I guess should have said "no you're wrong". Would that have been less defensive?

Probably.

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and im way too lazy to click any link Cheesy

Then I'll assume you're going to concede your last assertion.

thats not being defensive at all. being defensive would be pointing out that's not even the point of what i was posting about and even if you had shown me wrong on literally any point, which you didn't, the points you're arguing wouldn't have detracted from my post at all. I was talking how you take faith-based ideologies as 100% certainty by the nature of faith. Getting really defensive would be pointing out that regardless if you sit on the strong or weak spectrum of atheism, by the very nature of not being able to prove something's nonexistence, it takes faith to hold true to a lack of belief in a God. You don't know for certain if it truly does exist, so while the amount of faith is subjective, and imo significantly less than what it takes to believe in God, a lack of believe requires faith.

Hyperbole is something that you've used in your own arguments plenty of times, regardless the point of saying it was to show an extreme quantity of people who walk around ridiculing religion as something faith-based, while believing there is no way God could exist to be something of 100% certainty. If you want to play semantics please go else where, as I want to actually discuss religion. And my point. Not the representation of random people that I don't know, make another topic for that.
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« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2012, 09:37:03 pm »

thats not being defensive at all. being defensive would be pointing out that's not even the point of what i was posting about

lol

This is you being defensive, by the way.

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and even if you had shown me wrong on literally any point, which you didn't,

I genuinely laughed here.  You said that atheism was faith-based, and it isn't.  If you want me to go through the motions of showing you why that isn't the case, by all means let me know.  Because I've done it multiple times before I thought doing it here would be superfluous.  Again, though, let me know if that isn't the case.

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the points you're arguing wouldn't have detracted from my post at all.

They have, actually.  I suppose you were just too lazy to read them, like you were with that link I gave you that proved you were wrong about most internet atheists being of the gnostic persuasion.  Roll Eyes

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Getting really defensive would be pointing out that regardless if you sit on the strong or weak spectrum of atheism, by the very nature of not being able to prove something's nonexistence, it takes faith to hold true to a lack of belief in a God.

No, that would not be you being defensive.  That would be you being wrong.

You being defensive would be something like, say, displacing the blame for your own mistake on someone else, i.e. "That was obviously hyperbole I thought that was obvious".

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You don't know for certain if it truly does exist, so while the amount of faith is subjective, and imo significantly less than what it takes to believe in God, a lack of believe requires faith.

Saying "I don't believe in god" is not a faith based claim, and that's what atheism is.

In case you're unaware, theism is the belief in a god.  Atheism means lacking a belief in god.  That "A" is very important.

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Hyperbole is something that you've used in your own arguments plenty of times

Don't see how that's at all relevant, especially considering you weren't being hyperbolic when you asserted you were being so.  You were flat-out wrong.  You weren't exaggerating the truth; you were factually incorrect.  There is a distinct difference.

Quote
regardless the point of saying it was to show an extreme quantity of people who walk around ridiculing religion as something faith-based, while believing there is no way God could exist to be something of 100% certainty.

No one's arguing that gnostic atheism is not faith-based.  However, your assertion that there is an "extreme quantity" of gnostic atheists has yet to be proven, and I'm more than a bit surprised at the fact that you're continuing to assert this after refusing to look at my link that states the exact opposite.

Quote
If you want to play semantics please go else where, as I want to actually discuss religion.

I think I'll stay right here, but thanks for your concern.  Though, feel free to drop this discussion at any time if it makes you unhappy.

Quote
And my point. Not the representation of random people that I don't know, make another topic for that.

If you intend to misrepresent a group of people (a group of which I am a part), I'm going to correct you.  Unless you've forgotten, we're free to discuss anything in the ASE.  It would be wise to stop demanding that I take it elsewhere.
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« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2012, 09:38:59 pm »

can i get that post but without all the quotes so i can read it fluidly? yknow what im saying?
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« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2012, 09:39:35 pm »

No.
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« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2012, 10:49:21 pm »

the very concept of faith implies that you don't know your believes to be 100% truth. If it was the 100% truth, it wouldn't just be a belief. It would be a cold hard, proven and reprovable fact. If your concept of God has to exist without any possible room for error, then you don't believe in God at all. Likewise, Atheists who claim to be 100% certain that there is no God are just as much in the wrong. (Atheism is faith-based as well, don't listen to what others tell you)


the proof is in my heart.
as i said before.

here we go again
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« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2012, 11:41:04 pm »

i get add reading going from quote to quote.
the very concept of faith implies that you don't know your believes to be 100% truth. If it was the 100% truth, it wouldn't just be a belief. It would be a cold hard, proven and reprovable fact. If your concept of God has to exist without any possible room for error, then you don't believe in God at all. Likewise, Atheists who claim to be 100% certain that there is no God are just as much in the wrong. (Atheism is faith-based as well, don't listen to what others tell you)


the proof is in my heart.
as i said before.

here we go again

thats not proof. thats your belief. if anything, your devotion is that much stronger to jesus if you can believe in him without needing proof.
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« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2012, 01:07:02 am »

If any religion was proven to be correct without doubt, I think everyone would 'convert' aside from those with ignorance.  Anyone that says religion doesn't require faith (Herman) is wrong.
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« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2012, 01:10:35 am »

If any religion was proven to be correct without doubt, I think everyone would 'convert' aside from those with ignorance.  Anyone that says religion doesn't require faith (Herman) is wrong.
It blows my mind that someone would even argue that religion doesn't require faith...and it's even more amazing that I've seen dumber assertions/statements/comments on Facebook...
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« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2012, 01:19:32 am »

Herman, what do you say to this verse, assuming you are a Christian who believes in the Bible?

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" - Ephesians 2:8

I'm really not looking to debate religion, but your view is simply too illogical to leave alone.
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thanks Tiger, now i can say **** without getting random asterisks.

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« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2012, 05:08:19 pm »

that verse solidifies my veiw.
Gods grace, and my unconditional faith, allows me to escape satan's traps, and be saved. FAITH
that verse says soooo much!
thank you for sharing.
when i took a leap of faith, and asked god into my heart, he did what he promised. he came into my heart.
try again
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« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2012, 06:06:30 pm »

he came into my heart.

That's fucked up, bro. Tell him to pull out.
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« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2012, 06:35:41 pm »

Get on your knees and serve Jesus until He comes.
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Um, staunch evolutionist scientists will tell you there is no scientific evidence that evolution exists. 
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