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This is upsetting.

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Author Topic: This is upsetting.  (Read 1298 times)
Termin8or
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« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2013, 07:44:33 pm »

Hold on a second, I'm not debating the merits of cod as a game here and what it has supposedly done to FPSs. We were discussing competitiveness of a game, so let's stay focused on that shall we. And yes I did read your post Squire, but that is one person's opinion and there is nothing to give legitimacy to his opinion on whether or not a game is competitive. Actually it sounded like he was more complaining about the skill level required to do well, which is not the discussion at hand.

So, back to competitiveness.

LT, are you saying that soccer is more competitive than American Football or Hockey or Basketball or College sports because it is more watched? So, I disagree with your "blind eye" comment and the fact that 55k people are watching other games being played, making them more competitive. Just because people aren't watching doesn't mean it isn't competitive.

So, again, I ask you why CoD isn't competitive compared to other games? Because some guy says you don't need as much skill to do well? The game obviously differentiates skill because the same people that do well in a game do well the next game, etc. It may not be the skills that "true gamers" feel are needed in a game like that, but there is still skill required.

Competitiveness has to do with the people playing unless the game somehow completely evens the playing field, which it doesn't.
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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2013, 07:50:48 pm »

it's the source for a lot of the complaints in the overall gaming community too because not only does it create a huge mass of low tier players that do  occasionally migrate to other games, but it also causes bad developers to try and tailor their games/entire genres to that same crowd that only wants to focus on call of duty. but this is an entirely seperate topic

This. This. This. Ohhhhh boy, this.

Also, being "competitive" while playing online isn't competitive gaming. That's still just casual gaming. Competitive is when money and tournaments are involved. When it comes to that, CoD is nothing. It's just heavily funded because of all the fools that keep supporting it. Myself included, but not anymore.
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« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2013, 07:52:55 pm »

Any game that differentiates skill, even slightly, can be competitive. I don't recall anyone here at any point saying that COD isn't competitive.

I think your confusing the competitiveness of the game, which we aren't really talking about, with the competitiveness of the player base, which is what we are talking about.

All I'm saying, is that I don't think you can argue that COD's player base is more serious about the game then something like Korean Starcraft, where top players not only dedicate their entire lives to playing, but get flown in to tournaments and events on freaking private jets and play in ****ing giant amphitheaters.

If you want to talk about how competitive the game itself is, that's another discussion altogether. In fact "competitive" is probably the wrong word. A better word would be "depth". Aka "how deep is Cod" or "what makes those other games deeper then COD". But like I said that's not the topic at hand I don't think.

Also, being "competitive" while playing online isn't competitive gaming. That's still just casual gaming. Competitive is when money and tournaments are involved.
Wrong. Competitive is playing to win. If your competing against someone, then you're being competitive. You can be competitive with a small circle of friends, or you can be competitive in the big leagues. But both are playing to win and both are simply different levels of the same experience.
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« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2013, 08:03:10 pm »

That's true if you're defiing a person who "plays competitively".

When you're comparing a casual gamer to something else, I would call someone who just plays CoD online and is 'competitive' a casual gamer. I think this is the casual vs. **** thing though.

I guess calling yourself competitive is fine, but you're still casual. That's what I mean.

I just have problems with CoD only players, okiedoke
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Termin8or
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« Reply #49 on: March 24, 2013, 08:04:32 pm »

I brought up the competitive game thing because the article you posted was more focused on the game and how it is watered down, etc.

But I still disagree, I don't care how many tournaments, etc. there are for a game (and I didn't check to see how CoD ranks against the other ones) and DG can talk about 'casual gamers' all he wants, but when I pick up a game I'm competitive and I'm playing a game. That's an elitist attitude and wrong (which I see that you stated Squire, so we agree on that).

I'm sure the top CoD players are extremely competitive and they play CoD all the time....much like the gamers from these other games. So, Squire, how can you use your logic that the other games are more competitive?? Again, you are referring to people committing their lives, being flown in, etc. All that means is that there is more money on the line (again I didn't search to find out how much money is on the line with CoD), but that doesn't make it more "competitive". That just makes it more lucrative.

Now, if you are talking per capita in terms of competitiveness, that might be a different story; however, I've known lots of WoW players that were what DG would call casual, so I'm not even sure the per capita would stand up in every situation.
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« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2013, 08:17:50 pm »

[/i]rdcore]Despite my constant teasing of people for being casual, I admit that ****/casual discussions are ****ing stupid

lol **** **** I can't link to the damn article because of your stupid censor.

http://bitmob.com/articles/terms-gamers-need-to-stop-misusing-casual-and-{INSERT THE YOU KNOW WHAT WORD HERE}

Anyway I only posted that article because Laughing Turd or whoever started talking about the game itself, and something he said just reminded me of that article so I posted it. Has nothing to do with the topoic at hand.

I'm sure the top CoD players are extremely competitive and they play CoD all the time....much like the gamers from these other games. So, Squire, how can you use your logic that the other games are more competitive??
Again, I'm not talking about how competitive the game itself is.

This whole thing is probably just some sort of misunderstanding. I only responded to Autumn because she said "Cod is the biggest and most competitive game" which as I said is very hard to argue. Now I don't know the figures so I can't say if it's the biggest game (I doubt it). But I don't think you can argue that it's the most competitively played game no matter how your defining competitive.

Do you mean that the player base is more serious about the game? There are more serious player bases.
Do you mean the player base is larger? There are larger player bases.
Do you mean the player base is larger and more serious about the game in general? There are larger and more serious player bases.

If your going to define competition as something that comes in degrees, with some games being more competitive then others, then however you slice it there are games that far, far, far outdo cod in those regards.
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« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2013, 09:26:39 pm »

No, I'm simply talking about the players as you say and I'm saying that lucrative tournaments doesn't define their competitiveness. Not talking about the game because I agree that is not the topic at hand even though it was referenced by others.

You stated the Korean example as being more "competitive", but why? I'm sure the top CoD players put just as many hours into their playing. Lets just compare the top players. Like I stated it could get watered down if you look at the entire community (the per capita thing), but I haven't sized up all of thd communities either.

So are you saying the top CoD players can't compare to other gamers in terms of competitveness? That's my question to you and what proof do you have other than your example of more lucrative tournaments....
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« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2013, 09:27:28 pm »

And when I said games last time I really meant the gamers, not the games.
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« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2013, 09:32:43 pm »

So are you saying the top CoD players can't compare to other gamers in terms of competitveness? That's my question to you and what proof do you have other than your example of more lucrative tournaments....
I wouldn't say that they can't compare, but I do think that most of the top Starcraft players take the game more seriously then most of the top COD players, and that there are a greater number of them who have this mindset.

Now, I cannot exactly prove it without digging through enormous amounts of statistics and surveys, but if you are familiar with the fervor that this game has world wide, as well as the sheer amount of time, devotion, and mental energy that the high level players devote to this game, I think you would agree that Starcrafts player base is far more devoted and large then CODs. It is, after all, the stuff of legends.

I would be willing to argue the same for other games as well, like various fighters and other rts. I do think there are many games out there have have staggeringly larger communities of devoted, competitive players. But like I said, I don't feel like digging up any statistics, interviews, or combing through every high level players journal to see how much time they spend playing, so this is merely my opinion (but, I think you'll find it one that is very close to the truth, all things considered).
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« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2013, 10:48:45 pm »

Hold on a second, I'm not debating the merits of cod as a game here and what it has supposedly done to FPSs. We were discussing competitiveness of a game, so let's stay focused on that shall we. And yes I did read your post Squire, but that is one person's opinion and there is nothing to give legitimacy to his opinion on whether or not a game is competitive. Actually it sounded like he was more complaining about the skill level required to do well, which is not the discussion at hand.

So, back to competitiveness.

LT, are you saying that soccer is more competitive than American Football or Hockey or Basketball or College sports because it is more watched? So, I disagree with your "blind eye" comment and the fact that 55k people are watching other games being played, making them more competitive. Just because people aren't watching doesn't mean it isn't competitive.

So, again, I ask you why CoD isn't competitive compared to other games? Because some guy says you don't need as much skill to do well? The game obviously differentiates skill because the same people that do well in a game do well the next game, etc. It may not be the skills that "true gamers" feel are needed in a game like that, but there is still skill required.

Competitiveness has to do with the people playing unless the game somehow completely evens the playing field, which it doesn't.

Oh I see where the misunderstanding is. My argument wasn't to counter yours. My original comment was just to state that the cod community at large is blind to most other things out there and i used Autumn's post of proof. More specific to my point was that cod is the "largest" competitive community. the 55k people simply watching the game online helped prove that statement wrong.

howerver, she also went on to say that she had never seen a larger competitive community and that also comes into line with my claim that the typical cod fan simply doesn't know about much else because they don't want to. LoL is simply and factually a bigger competitive scene.

I wasn't arguing over competitive levels or anything.
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« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2013, 11:01:52 pm »

I don't see how the number of viewers has to do with anything but ok.
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« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2013, 11:13:53 pm »

and again i should have been more specific. the cod viewings were only at 2 or 3 thousand and those numbers are pretty typical. CoD is not nearly the largest competitive community.
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« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2013, 11:29:48 pm »

I didn't read most of the posts I'm on a timetable here, but I do want to add this thing I heard a few weeks ago.  Perhaps a little off topic, but not discussion.

It was talking about how CoD releases a new game every year, and every competitive player has to adapt to the new environment to keep up, even though it is extremely familiar.  Some gameplay element are tweaked or changed year to year, maps change, weapons change and fire differently that sort of stuff.  

It then talked about Counter Strike for example and how most **** players at it still play 2.0 or whatever, and have been playing with the same gameplay elements and what not for years and years, which allows them to hone their skills a lot sharper than playing a game for less than a year and switching over, along with most of the community to a new game each 23rd day of november.  

I'm not arguing anything is more competitive, nor if anyone is immature or just in the heat of the moment, just adding something I had read.  I'd link you the article, but I dont have time.
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« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2013, 11:45:29 pm »

Honestly I could care less about who has the largest competitive gaming community.. I just hate how DG always takes shots at cod because it's too mainstream for him.

Everyone kind of went off on my comment when really I just said it make DG upset. I think we should be arguing about what this topic was really made about. DG saying Cod is the worst community is a joke... he showed a rage compilation, that proves little to nothing.


« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 11:53:22 pm by Λυтυмη » Report Spam   Logged
Squire Grooktook
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« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2013, 01:07:11 am »

I didn't actually watch the original video.
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