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The Last of Us Discussion topic (SPOILERS OMG SPOILER SPOILERS ENDING SPOILERS)

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Author Topic: The Last of Us Discussion topic (SPOILERS OMG SPOILER SPOILERS ENDING SPOILERS)  (Read 636 times)
Turboweasle
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 11:41:53 am »

Bascially, the way I see it, the gradual change from "just a job" to surrogate daughter came at a scene right before Tess, Ellie and Joel got to the Capitol building. They are on a rooftop, I think, and they're all jumping down. Ellie had said something and right after that, Joel stared at his watch. It was a small thing but to me it said that Joel was thinking about his daughter and had started to draw similarities between his real daughter and Ellie. Those similarities are obvious to us as viewrs but it's not outright mentioned what Joel was thinking. Right after, that Tess looks at Joel and although it's not specified, I think she knew what Joel was thinking because she told him to focus on the job.

I don't really remember him looking at his watch so I can't comment on that scene specifically.

And of course Joel sees the similarities between Sarah and Ellie, but that doesn't necessarily mean he considers her as a replacement for Sarah.  And he's kind of an **** to Ellie long after what happens in the capitol building.  I'm not sure if that one scene can be used as a basis to claim that Joel was growing warm towards Ellie through the entire game.

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From then on out it was not really addressed in any clear or specific way that Joel started to care about Ellie because I think that we as viewers were supposed make that assumption given that probably anyone in Joel's position would probably form an uneasy (uncomfortable) attachment to someone that bears so many similarites to someone important that we have lost and never really gotten over. To me it was something that we were supposed to guess was going on in the background even though it wasn't addressed outright until the "baby girl" scene.

See, I think that's irrational of him and doesn't make sense based upon his history.

He's a smuggler.  He's extremely pragmatic (how many times, for example, does he say, "We have no other choice/option"?).  He and Tess have been staying alive that way for nearly two decades.  Tess explicitly states that she and Joel are not good people in the capitol building, and Joel does not protest.

Furthermore, when Tess dies Joel doesn't really mourn at all, and they've been together for quite some time.  Sure, their relationship isn't the same as the one between Joel and Sarah was, but the point still stands considering they had been partners for a very long time.

He's just not an emotional guy, and he pretty consistently does not act warm towards Ellie for the overwhelming majority of the game.  I'm pretty sure the only reason he continued trying to get Ellie to the Fireflies was for Tess, since she thought that would be a form of redemption for them.


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Was it selfish to take Ellie despite her being humanitys last hope and killing the scientists, absolutely. But to me the game isn't trying to justify it as much as it's trying to put you in Joel's shoes and show you what a person who has recently accepted his emotional attachment to someone coupled with a "you or me" personality would do in that position.

I get that.  What I don't get is this:

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I think the game and the writing did a great job of that and I absolutely enjoyed it.

They didn't show you how he progressively came to care about Ellie.  It was just that we were suddenly in Salt Lake City and now he's treating her like his daughter.  What all happened between the crazy guy and getting to Salt Lake City?  What happened during that time that changed his perspective that they hadn't already experienced at some earlier point in their journey?

They just told us that Joel had now changed, which isn't good story telling.  We didn't get to see the development of Joel's character at all, really, between the two extremes of Ellie being the job and Ellie being his "daughter".  And to me, this is what made the ending utterly void of emotion.  I didn't even feel angry at Joel.  I felt cheated that the development of Joel's humanity and emotions were left to be assumed.

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I legitimately felt what Joel was likely feeling at the moment he took her away and the moment he lied to her. It felt wrong, very wrong, but I think that's what they wanted you to feel and more importantly, understand.

And to me they failed to do that.  To me, Joel abandoned two decades' worth of precedent and his survival-at-all-costs mindset at a moment's notice, which felt jarring and out of place.  For me, at the end, too much is left to be assumed.

Consider this: If Joel had really cared about Ellie, don't you think he would have insisted they discuss what was going to go down when they reached the Fireflies?  Shouldn't that be something that would be important to Joel if he cared about Ellie's well-being on a level other than her being the package to deliver?  Instead, when Ellie is obviously distracted on the way to the hospital, Joel just says, "We can just turn around," or something equally as inane.  It doesn't allow us to hear why Ellie might be distracted or reserved, or hesitant about meeting up with the Fireflies when previously she had been pretty damn excited about it.  And for all we know, Ellie could have just been jaded about the possibility of finding the Fireflies in the hospital after previous failed attempts.  But that's the point: We don't know.  We're left to assume because of the lack of story telling done towards the end of the game pertaining to the development of their characters.

And that's the biggest issue I have with the game.  If you want me to feel something for the characters at the end, don't throw in huge character reversals without necessary character development to justify those reversals.
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"And I also told the students that, for the sake of humanity's future, I hoped they were all sterile." - Ignatius Reilly.
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