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**** "Lag" in clan wars

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Author Topic: **** "Lag" in clan wars  (Read 679 times)
A WALL
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« on: March 22, 2009, 07:20:32 pm »

 Angry  My Rant about excuses

Ok, this topic was made because im tired of hearing this before, and after clan wars........

"OMG we lagzorz and you guys pwnt us cause we lagged and our host is good but yours is bad yada yada yada."

Time to accept the fact that, no matter what clan you face, if you lose, you lagged, and if you won, it was great!  Honestly this is getting old guys, and you need to face the fact that the wii online lags, and dont blame it on all this skype male cattle dung, IT LAGS!!! End of **** story.  So just play the game through the "lag" that there is.  Both sides have to deal with it.  And If you come into this topic saying that the other teams host was bad but yours is good, i will kill you.  Because it always seems like somehow, your teams host is always godlike, and the other teams is ****.  Well i guarantee you that if you put one teams host right next to the other teams host, they would be the same lag/not lag, however teams would claim one host is better than the other.  Play the game pu****s, don't **** and moan.  This is why MOH>CoD
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2009, 07:54:19 pm »

The question is whether lag actually gives advantages or disadvantages to one team/person, rather than being having the frustration distributed evenly.

We've all encountered people who don't die no matter what, yet always manage to kill you, and there's a point where it's no longer skill.
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A WALL
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 08:31:41 pm »

thats necessary to bring to attention but most clans use lag as an excuse even though it wasn't that bad.  I mean i've witnessed it first hand seeing teammates complaining about lag when quite frankly there wasn't any Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 08:34:49 pm »

I love people who bitch about bitching
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 09:32:05 pm »

Lag is always a plausible excuse as there's no way to disprove it.



Welcome to FPS gaming.
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2009, 09:32:09 pm »

WALL...lag is different for everyone because it's host dependent...So someone in California will get tremendous lag from someone in Maine....

This is why I always want a Central host from clans, but honestly not every clan has someone in the Central US/CAN. :/ That's why I think clans should try their best to get a host closest to Central as possible, so the lag isn't too bad.

Clans like BC have squads that are all on the East coast of the US, which is hell for me and other that are on the west coast. :/ Which is why clans **** about lag with the enemy host, yet say it's fine on their teams host. Not sure if I can say every clan, but that's F5 for the most part.
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2009, 10:09:10 pm »

hosts dont have very much lag though cos there the ones hosting so who ever hosts wins in my experience

also lulz at ur sig wally XD
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 11:30:12 pm »

How insightful, freez. Actually, hosts have zero lag. Hosts are playing offline, pretty much, and everybody else is just connecting to them.
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2009, 09:12:31 am »

OK its time for me to do a little education about what you guys call lag.  For those who don't know I have been in software development and information technology for 27 years.  The issue is how long it takes to send coordinates (I moved here I shot here and so on) from one Wii to another.  MOH has the same lag issues, it just does not have any host advantage.  The host advantage is not perfect btw, I have seen many times where I hosted and ppl were unkillable due to some of the issues listed below.  One very important thing to understand is that it is not just the Wiis either.  Every game also connects to servers in some presumably centralized location so it can recors everything that happens to gather statistics for leader boards and so on.  So here goes:

Network Latency - essentially the distance between two wiis or between Wii and servers.  Even if you are the host this can create lag that can't be fixed.  You tend to see this in the U.S. for example when playing ppl from Austrailia, New Zealand and so on (they would see the same issues with us btw).  Its a good argument for region locking.

Servers under powered or not enough of them - another example of even if hosting you experience lag.  If you dont have enough servers to handle a big number of games/users everyone will be lagging.  This is the classic Nintendo problem.  Its not just that a 360 is more powerful, its that your annual fees BUY you a more powerful gaming network vs Nintendo doing it cheaply.  

Bad Connection - if you have a slow connection at home because of bad equipment or You Tube spamming or other reasons you will always lag others and experience lag yourselves

And as for hosting, it works great in the PS/360 environment so a better console and gaming network is the real issue.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 12:52:01 pm by undrclsshero » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 12:12:35 pm »

MoH does not have the same lag issues. It has lag issues alright, but they're not identical. As i said in that topic i made in the MoH board CoD directly has hit detection issues, especially when you play americans. If people stand still in MoH and i shoot them (or melee them) they get hit no even if i play against US players. This is not the case in CoD because alot of the times hits simply don't register at all even if you lagshoot properly.


And THAT is the reason MoH is better than CoD. It's completely ridicilous how you can empty SMG clip after SMG clip in a game where you only need so few hits. It also makes it extra much lag and spraying and praying because the lagshooting is not even consistent (not the slightest) and you never know when that single bullet is gonna hit. I swear if CoD had as much health as MoH only snipers, and shotguns would ever get kills through one hits.

Edit: And it is not just host advantage stuff that makes the difference. QoS uses the same engine as CoD and also uses the host system. QoS does not have hit detection problems and if you know how to aim you'll always one clip people with any gun. Heck you don't even need to lagshoot in that game, it actually works. You can go check some vids (i know this talool1 guy has a few up. Not that he's very good, but it shows what i mean) if you don't believe me here. You can see how quickly people are supposed to drop in CoD in that game. Well actually i think CoD might even have slightly less health.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 12:15:25 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2009, 12:54:49 pm »

Obviously you did not read or comprehend what I said.  So you can keep believing in your MOH fantasy world.
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2009, 01:35:15 pm »

OK its time for me to do a little education about what you guys call lag.
You want to tell me what lag is. Did i get it right?
 For those who don't know I have been in software development and information technology for 27 years.  
You have been in business about such technology for a long long time. True?
The issue is how long it takes to send coordinates (I moved here I shot here and so on) from one Wii to another.  
The problem is that data sent from one wii to another takes some time and people aren't completely synched. Causing you to lagshoot, as well as delayed kills. Am i correct?
MOH has the same lag issues, it just does not have any host advantage.
This is a point where i per experience (and per other people's experience) quite simply disagree, but here is what you told me first: MoH has the same lag issues as CoD. My verdict of the statement even with your background is NO!
MoH does not have the same amount of hit detection problems. On the VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY rare occasion can people standing still in that game not get hit. On the VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY common occasion in CoD can you stand behind a sniper and knife him 5 times without him dying. If this is not because of lag that causes the bad hit detection here, then please do tell me what it is?
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The host advantage is not perfect btw, I have seen many times where I hosted and ppl were unkillable due to some of the issues listed below.
Host advantage isn't perfect is what you are saying, and you'll list some reasons. I agree host advantage isn't perfect and it still have some issues (again mainly with simply registering hits. An issue the other versions of CoD are also known for just not nearly as badly). I take you have no objections? 

One very important thing to understand is that it is not just the Wiis either.  Every game also connects to servers in some presumably centralized location so it can recors everything that happens to gather statistics for leader boards and so on.  So here goes:
Yep they connect to servers, and different companies figure different ways of handle lag (no i cannot elaborate, but maybe you can yourself. I'm sure you must be aware of this) and some games, even those who connects to the same servers, have different amounts of noticeable lag. Take mario strikers charged contra super smash brothers brawl for one. Brawl suffers from a HIGH amount of input delay that everyone will notice. Mario strikers charged has hardly noticeable input delay, and no teleportation or synch lag at all. The only place where input delay is somewhat noticeable is in a trick that needs specific frame precision.
Network Latency - essentially the distance between two wiis or between Wii and servers.  Even if you are the host this can create lag that can't be fixed.  You tend to see this in the U.S. for example when playing ppl from Austrailia, New Zealand and so on (they would see the same issues with us btw).  Its a good argument for region locking.
The longer the distance, the higher ping, the more lag. Did i get it right?
Servers under powered or not enough of them - another example of even if hosting you experience lag.  If you dont have enough servers to handle a big number of games/users everyone will be lagging.  This is the classic Nintendo problem.  Its not just that a 360 is more powerful, its that your annual fees BUY you a more powerful gaming network vs Nintendo doing it cheaply.  
Not enough servers can cause lag because of being overloaded. Did i get it right?
Bad Connection - if you have a slow connection at home because of bad equipment or You Tube spamming or other reasons you will always lag others and experience lag yourselves
Your own connection being bad makes you lag for yourself, and for others, it doesn't mean the entire game lags. Am i right?
My speedtest results are here:
Am i right when i say i am not that guy who causes the lag? Well don't answer that actually, i have played on the PS3 and know i'm not.
Here's my results directly from the wii (which are naturally worse, anyone who wants an accurate lag test needs to do it through the wii's internet channel):  
This is still a very good result from the wii, which i've been told from alot of people, and is even on my wireless connection to it.
And as for hosting, it works great in the PS/360 environment so a better console and gaming network is the real issue.
Hosting on PS360 (plus PC) is much better. Am i correct that this is what you were saying? Either way i know it is true i have a PS3 myself. Doesn't take away from the fact that some games lag more than others also on those 2 consoles. (Example: SFIV is a fighter that actually works online. From what i hear it is the first one to really accomplish this perfectly).


Did i get anything. ANYTHING! Wrong? Please explain it to me better if i did so i can comprehend why my, and 90% (yes this is a made up number) of all the wii gamers experience after countless of hours of gameplay in this game shows that CoD has hit detection problem is simply wrong.

Another small notice: Any non-automatic fire gun will often double or triple fire in CoD due to lag and synch issues (often when others are shooting at the same time. Not only does this make neither of the shots register and you die (most of the time, a few times i have tried where one of the 2/3 shots did hit), but you also almost always get killed afterwards. Never happens in MoH. Is this not lag, and if not what is it?

I don't know undr, i somewhat think it is you are living in a fantasy world here. By no means do i say that MoH doesn't lag, but have you tried cross-continent play on both CoD and MoH? No. Have i? Yes. Who should know best what game lags more when the game is pushed to its limits? Well personally i'd say the guy who has actually played them, but appearntly you think the guy who has been in the business can know that all games on the wii will absolutely certainly always lag identically much. Even if QoS appears not to have lagshooting or hit detection problems at all, but only have problems with teleport (on yourself - CoD has it happening as well sometimes. You return to spots you've already been to before walking against a wall and stuff. I'm sure you've seen it) lag and complete disconnections from other players at times. k.

Edit: You have no idea of how tempted i am to go play some games with some americans in CoD and record them, then do the same in MoH and compare them in a vid right now.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 01:49:39 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2009, 01:55:44 pm »

thats the longest post ive ever seen.
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2009, 02:02:51 pm »

Half the post is just quotes, and images so it's really not that long. I felt i had to make it like that when i was told that i simply just couldn't comprehend what he was saying and just shouldn't trust my instincts or whatever. That's seriously an insult to me. For the record i kept up with JTR with a SHOTGUN in most of my games back when i did play this game (a point where i STILL acknowledged the bigger lag issues it has), a player who undr has just announced as the best all around player (and is a player in US where lag should be bad - and sometimes was bad - even), so these are not claims based on being bad at the game. I have had worse lag in an all european room in CoD where everyone was 4 or 3 bars, than i sometime have in 32 player NTSC MoH games.
I still stand by my claim that if CoD had the same health level as MoH, then killing people with anything that wasn't OHKO would be nearly impossible. One clipping with automatics would hardly ever happen. Like getting the required 6 headshots with the thompson in CoD? Forget it, it's just not possible.

Edit: Wow this is incredible, why does stuff like this bother me so much. I am actually on my way to play CoD now just to reconfirm to myself that it is a **** game where i can empty an extended clip mp40 into the face of someone and ocasionally see him survive, and see my shotgun fire as if it was automatic while only using one shell.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 02:30:35 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2009, 02:43:04 pm »

MoH does not have the same amount of hit detection problems. On the VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY rare occasion can people standing still in that game not get hit. On the VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY common occasion in CoD can you stand behind a sniper and knife him 5 times without him dying. If this is not because of lag that causes the bad hit detection here, then please do tell me what it is?






What you said there is actually not true. The fact that you are unable to knife someone standing still is not lag, it has to due where you aim your knife. Aim differently and it will work. CoD is better for lag depending on the host, where as MoH was just plain shitty. Zero hit detection and true the lag was somewhat consistent but it was still there.
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