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**** "Lag" in clan wars

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Windeh
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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2009, 02:56:23 pm »

A couple nights ago I tried knifing Math like 5 times in a row, and I actually saw the knife go into him and do nothing. Explain that :@
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2009, 02:56:33 pm »

It is humping true. This happens even more often in games where people have weaker connections (go figure). There was nothing wrong with my knifing.

Let me try to point it out in another way then: How good is a players accuracy in MoH? like 20 with SMGs? Ok now in CoD you don't get the stats, but you know when you hit due to the sound the X. Do you on average get that sound for every fifth bullet? Or shotguns it should be around 60. Do you kill people (aka hit people) on more than half your shots?

Edit: Oh yeah let me give some PS3 (other console wow) examples: Resistance 2 you can play with anyone, anywhere and if he has decent internet he doesn't lag. Hit detection issues? They exist with the shotgun on occasion that's it. Even people who teleport otherwise always ALWAYS gets hit if you hit them. Maybe they die 10 seconds later, but the shot registers. Killzone 2 then. Hit registration is a girl and playing people in another continent always lags a bit. Not wii lag, but more lag. 2 games from the same console.
Oh btw, CoD is using nintendo's servers afaik while MoH is using EA nation. Now that is one thing, but as i already stated there are also examples of other games on the wii where lag is worse in some games compared to others (msc contra brawl). And did you not state that underpowered servers, or not enough servers or whatever could cause lag. Are you disagreeing that CoD not only has more players in their game, but also even though works with the host system (in conjunction with servers) uses a completely different server in MoH? How can you state that these things influence lag and at the same time claim that lag has to be the same in both games?

It was also generally easier to snipe people in MoH. Really this shouldn't even be up for discussion, people knew this from day 1 of CoD's release.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 03:21:26 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2009, 03:33:01 pm »

when I play in wars sometimes, it is very hard to kill people and I don't really play as well as I do in regular games.
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« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2009, 03:47:05 pm »

Here's a short 2 minute clip where hit detection wasn't a complete girl on me just to show that it's not because i'm saying that it makes CoD completely unplayable, but just that stating that the only difference in lag between MoH and CoD is host advantage:
Might not be done processing yet, but you got the link now. Even in this clip there is at least one instance where i fire at the exact same spot, and my target doesn't move where only the second shot registers though.

I'll give you another way to see this now btw: Go play a game with a friend. First you host, then he hosts. Both games your friend stands still. Choose the PPSh (most rapid fire for best effect), shoot him and take note of how quickly the hit sounds come in succesion in one compared to the other. You should notice that at least if you try this a couple of times, the time where you host the succesion of these hits is ALOT faster. In MoH i repeat that shots did pretty much always register. You'd never run behind someone and double pistol shot him in the head and see him not die. You'd never be in doubt if all your shots really registered when you went on with a friend to test how many headshots was needed for a kill (if you did that... I did) because they always registered and you always used the same amount of shots.

As the description said i might go and make a compilation of obvious cases of shots not registering in WaWii. Of course all clips will be while i have 3 bars or more. Yes i have this much time on my hands right now.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 03:49:24 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2009, 04:15:25 pm »

well its good to see we can all get to obvious conclusions that 1, lag exists, 2, it does play an unfair part in cws no matter who says what, and 3, that whoever is the host DOES have a distinct advantage because all shots register as if it was 360 gameplay
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« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2009, 04:15:59 pm »

btw the 360 has almost no lag for you who dont know
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2009, 04:23:53 pm »

Well obviously when your hosts that happens as the connection is based off of you and runs through you so all of your reactions will be picked up faster. But the fact that your missing a knife is all about aim. If you have aimed that knife correctly, you will hit them. I could make the same argument about MoH and how melee's did not always register. Is it due to lag, no, it's because plain and simple, you missed. CoD lags yes, but it is host dependent. Everyone can blame the lag for a bad game, but how often is that actually true, not often. If your connection is fine, you should experience no problems if the host is at least decent. I would much rather the CoD lag because if you get a good host, shots will connect. If there is no sound, you missed. The lag did not bend light and warp your bullets. Get over it, if you don't like it, get an Xbox and shutup.
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« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2009, 04:35:32 pm »

No no no no. Listen. LISTEN. Go play those friendlies and do the hit detection test as i told you to. The game even tells you how many bullets actually register on target. It is pure fact that shots commonly don't register in CoD. Yes host hits more often because the game is based around the host big whoop i know that. THAT DOES NOT MEAN MY SHOTS SHOULDN'T REGISTER ON THE HOST WHEN THE HOST IS STANDING STILL! You can still do the exact same in MoH and you will always ALWAYS kill in the same amount of shots no matter how many times you do the test.
Kniving requires the other player to have a really bad connection most of the time, but no it is not due to my aiming when this happens. Yeah maybe on people on last stand i suck at knifing those, but otherwise not. Speaking of last stand yeah i've also had situations where i've emptied my magnum into people in last stand and not kill them. Did you know that these guys get killed by a single hit with any gun?
I really can't believe some of you guys think this game doesn't suffer from bad hit detection with such obvious examples.

It is not lag per say that makes CoD on the wii a really bad game, it is the bad hit detection it has, even sometimes when hosting your shots don't always register - although the hit detection improves alot unless you're used to only play 1on1 with a guy living relatively close to you, and preferably not using automatics.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 04:41:41 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2009, 04:53:41 pm »

If you aim properly, you will not have hit detection problems. Sure use a PPSH and you will miss a lot of shots because it was not made for insane accuracy, Use a scope on a BA and hit detection is the same. Stand right in front of the guy and hit detection is the same.
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« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2009, 05:21:55 pm »

Seriously now you are just making stuff up mate. PPSh is the most accurate gun in the entire game. If my target stands still, this is the gun that is least likely to miss at all closerange. But alright if you want a more visual example go to the vid i just made: 0:40-0:43 I fire twice. Same spot (ok i adjust very slightly, but not enough for first shot to miss completely). Target is within range both times and only moves a slight bit forward. First shot misses. Second shot hits. And don't worry i have much better stuff coming up in said compilation already. You might wanna take a look at the 2 comments to my vid as well - and note that i did not pm either to watch and comment on it, they are just subscribers. Also note that i am completely aware of my aim being sloppy in the game, i haven't played wii FPS in ages.

And yeah i totally can't aim at standing targets (or people in last stand) in CoD when i can in MoH. Of course why didn't i think of that. Man i am so stupid lololololololol

Edit: Oh yeah you can also take note of that the "matroix" guy commenting on the vid actually likes the game, AND uses bolt action rifles quite well: This is his montage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1oLJngZdI0#&fmt=18
All stuff from one day of playing, and that being right after he got his wii back from nintendo where it had been in for repair for a few months.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 05:32:29 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2009, 05:29:32 pm »

Many things can contribute to missing a shot, not looking through the sites, moving while shooting among others. You are a classic example of what A Wall is talking about. I can't hit the guy so time to jump on the band wagon and bitch about how lag is terrible. Suck it up sunshine.
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« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2009, 05:43:41 pm »

I am not a classic example of what a wall is talking about since i simply refuse to play the game, and nowhere in a wall's post did he say that i am incorrect in what i am telling you now. He actually stated that MoH is better than CoD as well because of these issues. A wall did not say that the lag didn't exist. He said it existed for everyone so therefore it was annoying when people complained about it. He also stated that hosts are always identical, which is actually wrong (as undr also explained), but whatever i also got his point there, i was not at any point disagreeing with his post.

But alright even if you claim that CoD is at the same level of lag as MoH (...), then i sincerely hope you at least get that QoS is far better than both of those games lagwise. You aim on target. You hit the target, you kill the target. End. That game is bad in alot of other ways, but blows those 2 out of the water easily.

undr i somewhat think will agree with me on much of the stuff i posted since he appearntly is so technically knowledgable on the subject, but right now you are really motivating me to continue this compilation job just to see how you're going to explain some of the instances where i don't get kills for ages after attempting to aim directly at people, then lagshooting, and then suddenly getting a kill aiming straight on them again. Or more of those firing multiple times on a target that didn't change position in the meantime, but not hitting every time. Really. I look forward to your explanations of "well you didn't aim right the first 7 times so yeah" possibly without even watching it.
Did you read that i have CoD on another console btw? Thaaat's right. So i think i should know when i am aiming right in that game, and what the game is really capable of registering shots from.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 05:48:06 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2009, 05:49:35 pm »

I am not a classic example of what a wall is talking about since i simply refuse to play the game, and nowhere in a wall's post did he say that i am incorrect in what i am telling you now. He actually stated that MoH is better than CoD as well because of these issues. A wall did not say that the lag didn't exist. He said it existed for everyone so therefore it was annoying when people complained about it.

But alright even if you claim that CoD is at the same level of lag as MoH (...), then i sincerely hope you at least get that QoS is far better than both of those games lagwise. You aim on target. You hit the target, you kill the target. End. That game is bad in alot of other ways, but blows those 2 out of the water easily.

undr i somewhat think will agree with me on much of the stuff i posted since he appearntly is so technically knowledgable on the subject, but right now you are really motivating me to continue this compilation job just to see how you're going to explain some of the instances where i don't get kills for ages after attempting to aim directly at people, then lagshooting, and then suddenly getting a kill aiming straight on them again. Or more of those firing multiple times on a target that didn't change position in the meantime, but not hitting every time. Really. I look forward to your explanations of "well you didn't aim right the first 7 times so yeah" possibly without even watching it.

CoD's lag is ten times better than MoH. The fact that MoH had a set lag is pretty much the same for CoD, minus the host. The lead in MoH is way more than in CoD, just the fact that EA used a company server based system instead of a user based server gives the a player a slight advantage. If you were to join a good game with a good host, lag would be minimal where as MoH was always terrible. Who gives a shit if the lag is a set distance, if you were to join games with the same level host, it would also be a set distance. Different hosts will have different connection but it is much better to have a chance at a good game than an always crappy server.

MoH is basically like a constant 2 bar connection. Would you say that's better than one where if your  connection is where it should be, you will have 3 to 4 bars?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 05:51:40 pm by dudedudedude » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2009, 05:58:09 pm »

Dude. I completely agree with you on what you posted above. MoH handles lag differently and you need to lead more in that game (most of the time...). That is my very point. It is the core of the matter. The lag is not identical minus the host as undr claims.
If you read my description of the video you'll actually notice i say the same thing. However CoD backfires in its method and it causes shot to sometimes just not registering at all. Again i have a third example of a wii fps (Quantum of solace) where it uses the same system, but shots register much more often (probably due to the less players, and worse graphics so it's not pushed to it's technical limits as much). If you rent that game you'll quickly notice that.
Again it's not that the game is completely unplayable (check out the vid), but hit detection being bad in WaWii is still the case. It really is, and you should at least go and do the test i suggested that you did before just saying that this could not possibly be true.
As i also mentioned even games on the PS3 has minor hit detection issues when you play against americans. This game (killzone 2) always kill on headshots and i have had instances of hitting a guy in the head (blood actually spurting out) while no other part of his body showed on my screen, and him not dying. Bad hit detection is one kind of lag that happens in video games. Just like input delay, and de-synch (lagshooting or leading) is. This game placed its focus on not having to lead your shots, and not having input delay. Sadly it does have the hit detection problem. It really does.
Sometimes connections to the same host will also differ from day to day, but i agree a good host improves the game. Actually i was host in a clanwar before where i had really bad lag the first game myself, and as you can see my connection is pretty damn good. It's fine that you prefer that the game works this way, but that doesn't mean you can just refute that this game has lag-problems as well.
Oh and i still stand by my point that the only reason some people can possibly have trouble seeing this is because CoD is set at a ridicilously low health level compared to MoH so you don't need that many consecutive hits for a kill.


I have experience on CoD against people from all parts of the world, MoH from US, and europe, QoS, and 3 different FPS games on the PS3 (plus other kinds of online games on both these 2 consoles) to base these things off, and in none of these games is lag the exact same or appearing in the same way.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:03:02 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2009, 06:18:05 pm »

Actually i think i'll try with just a single clip for you first dude. Go to the actual site and read the description too please.



There shouldn't be much to discuss. I had 3 bars in this game btw. And this wasn't even one of the worst examples of bad hit detection in this game.

Sorry for the double post i just wanted to make sure he saw this. I'll be on my way to bed soon (it's over midnight here now) so you'll be free of my wall of texting for a while now.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:19:54 pm by stelzig » Report Spam   Logged
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