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Clan CK

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Author Topic: Clan CK  (Read 1074 times)
Turboweasle
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« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2009, 04:31:20 pm »

you said you were leaving the site, but you're back, which is it?

I am leaving the site.  After I give this site a present, I'll be gone.

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And what I gave you was facts about people who made mistakes and were very successful. You could debate all day about what they may have done, but there is no proof.

There's no proof that they wouldn't have done something.  If they were making all the right decisions (remember, this is a hypothetical argument-- I still haven't figured out how you think that citing real-life examples in a hypothetical debate helped at all), they would have been exponentially more successful than they were after making the wrong decision.

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All I did was aks for proof to back up your argument. That people making all the right decisions are more successful.

Donald Trump.  There you go.  He wouldn't be where he is if he had made all the wrong choices.  Of course, he would be much higher than he is if he had made all the right decisions.  Happy now?

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You can't have your cake and eat it too. You either put up or shut up.

Actually, you can.  That's just a coward's excuse for not trying.

Now, how about you answer one of my many questions?  I'll make it easy for you:

"This is a bit off-topic, but I want to comment on it: You said you were done with arguing this argument because I was too immature.  So, you either had a drastic change of heart which would contradict your earlier posts (or should I say "earlier attempts to save face") or you're trying to prove just how big of a hypocrite you are.  Which is it?"

"So you're saying that, if Donald Trump had never made a bad decision (implying that he had made the right decision instead of not making a decision, of course), he would be less well-off than he currently is?"

 "Are you trying to say that they couldn't gain wisdom from making the right decision?"

"Which benefits them in that moment and in the future, right?" -- (In response to "When they hit it right they make a fortune.")

" Answer me this: If someone makes the wrong choices consistently enough to glean as much wisdom as you're implying that they do from their mistakes, then how are we to know that they will make the right decision later on down the road?  Also, if your risky stock broker star had made the wrong investment and lost a ton of money, how is that going to benefit him in that moment in any way?  It may help him in the future, but how does it help him in that split second?"

"Now you're thinking that, if he had stayed at home, he wouldn't have done anything.  For all we know, he could have stayed at home, gone to college, become a doctor, happened upon some fungi, and discovered penicillin decades before its discovery in our own history, saving the lives of thousands of Union and Confederate soldiers that would have died otherwise.  You're arguing that he would have stayed home and done nothing, but how are you to know?"

Have fun.  Smiley
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« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2009, 04:45:30 pm »

HOLY CRAP. This was for N2F3 recruiting NOT arguing about who's wrong or right.
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« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2009, 05:03:51 pm »

Let me break it down:

1. I had no issues debating the subject with you, but you were trying to insult my intelligence. I did not attack you until after you attacked me. That's when I said I didn't want to continue.
2. The reason I continued is because I do feel that you (or someone else) will learn something from this discussion and that will help someone down the road. That's the whole reason I posted in the first place. Trying to be helpful, not critical.
3. I'm talking about real life, not hypothetical situations. I only referred to hypothetical situations because you and 3d chose to use those to back up your argument. If we don't apply it to real life scenarios then we could argue forever and there would never be proof either way.
4. Not sure about your Donald Trump statement, he's made many mistakes in his life and is very successful. I had asked you to name someone who has made all the right decsions. The 'perfect' person. Mother Theresa maybe?
5. What I meant by you can't have your cake and eat it to is that you can't keep trying to put me on the spot and avoid my questions. Where is your real-life proof?
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« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2009, 05:21:10 pm »

Just say GGs and move on, Term.

You can't win.
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« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2009, 05:31:24 pm »

Just say GGs and move on, Term.

You can't win.

You are correct Ress. I agree. Nobody can win other than Turbo so it doesn't really matter. But, I did start the conversation with 3d, not Turbo.

I will say 'I digress'. Flame away Turbo.
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« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2009, 06:12:33 pm »

The jk7 vs turbo flames on GF were always funny because they both made walls of text xD.
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« Reply #66 on: August 05, 2009, 09:03:01 am »

Let me break it down:

1. I had no issues debating the subject with you, but you were trying to insult my intelligence. I did not attack you until after you attacked me. That's when I said I didn't want to continue.

If you think my "lol"'s are insults, then you don't know me very well.

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2. The reason I continued is because I do feel that you (or someone else) will learn something from this discussion and that will help someone down the road. That's the whole reason I posted in the first place. Trying to be helpful, not critical.

Same as I.  We disagreed and argued.  There's no need to get offended because I don't share your viewpoint.

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3. I'm talking about real life, not hypothetical situations. I only referred to hypothetical situations because you and 3d chose to use those to back up your argument. If we don't apply it to real life scenarios then we could argue forever and there would never be proof either way.

If you started arguing with 3D first and he was using hypothetical situations, then why did you use real-life examples?  Also, hypothetical arguments can be finished; you use logic instead of real-life examples.

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4. Not sure about your Donald Trump statement, he's made many mistakes in his life and is very successful. I had asked you to name someone who has made all the right decsions. The 'perfect' person. Mother Theresa maybe?

My point with Donald Trump was to get you to think about how successful he could have been if he had never made a mistake and had made all the right decisions accordingly.  He would be more successful if he had never made a mistake, which is the basis for the argument I was previously making: "Making the right decisions benefits you more than making the wrong decisions in every possible way.  If you don't make mistakes, do you need to learn from mistakes?"

My original question was: "But, assuming someone doesn't sit in a padded room all day and actually makes decisions, wouldn't you say that the person in question was wise if he never needed to learn from mistakes because he made the right choices?"

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5. What I meant by you can't have your cake and eat it to is that you can't keep trying to put me on the spot and avoid my questions. Where is your real-life proof?

I don't need real-life proof, as this is a hypothetical debate.  There is no perfect human, and that is crucial to my argument.  The point is, if someone had made all the right decisions (or even more right decisions than they have), they will be more successful than if they made mistakes.  You learn from mistakes, yes; but imagine what someone would be like if they didn't need to learn from mistakes.  It is impossible for them to be lesser than they really are.

Now, I'm quite curious.  You say that I can't keep trying to put you on the spot and avoid your questions, but that is precisely what you are doing as well.  I even had to list the questions before you would attempt to respond, and after that you still avoided giving a definitive answer.

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You are correct Ress. I agree. Nobody can win other than Turbo so it doesn't really matter. But, I did start the conversation with 3d, not Turbo.

I will say 'I digress'. Flame away Turbo.

Here you go again, trying to save face.  Put up an argument and hope the other person doesn't respond, then act like they're a bad person who's out to get you, tuck tail and run.

I haven't started to flame you at all, unless you consider "lolwut" and "that's absurd" to be flames, in which case you've been flaming your heart out, too.  If you truly are done, then I'm a bit saddened-- I was quite enjoying this debate.

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The jk7 vs turbo flames on GF were always funny because they both made walls of text xD.

Yeah, that was before I started using the enter key.  I was making my own eyes bleed.  D:
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I NEVER squeeze my jubblies, so that stuff wouldn't work for me.
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« Reply #67 on: August 05, 2009, 09:31:07 am »

Turbo, you keep enticing me back   Smiley

Ok, I'm willing to accept that you don't feel the "lol's", the "absurd" comments, etc are insults. I will say though that I would respect your arguments more if they didn't have those types of words or the implication that the person you are debating with is an idiot. I felt they were insulting and that is when I responded with an attack of my own. I contend that my original discussion did not contain any attacks. I hope you accept that.

I think I know where this all changed now. When I initially made the comment to 3d I was definitely basing it on real-life because that's where it matters. 3d changed it to hypothetical, so I responded to the hypothetical situation but was still trying to keep the 'real' elements in it or at least the ability to take the hypothetical scenario and try to apply it to real-life.

If we are speaking purely hypothetical, then I still claim we could argue forever even in a logical fashion (since debators do that all the time, but the arguments would be weaker eventually), but a perfect person making all the right decisions (assuming the right decisions are actually 'the right' decisions if you know what I mean) should have the shortest path to being successful. I won't say they will be more successful, because a person making mistakes could eventually become perfect as well (hypothetically speaking) and achieve that same level of success. Of course the person on the shorter path will have more time to be more successful.

Are we finished now? Have we reached common ground?
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« Reply #68 on: August 05, 2009, 09:41:44 am »

Turbo, you keep enticing me back   Smiley

I have that effect on men of all ages.  Kiss

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Ok, I'm willing to accept that you don't feel the "lol's", the "absurd" comments, etc are insults. I will say though that I would respect your arguments more if they didn't have those types of words or the implication that the person you are debating with is an idiot. I felt they were insulting and that is when I responded with an attack of my own. I contend that my original discussion did not contain any attacks. I hope you accept that.

Sure, sorry for that.  It's just what I do.  No offense intended.  Keep in mind, I'm still a hot-headed teenager.  D:

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I think I know where this all changed now. When I initially made the comment to 3d I was definitely basing it on real-life because that's where it matters. 3d changed it to hypothetical, so I responded to the hypothetical situation but was still trying to keep the 'real' elements in it or at least the ability to take the hypothetical scenario and try to apply it to real-life.

Yep.  When I entered with my first argument, it had just changed to hypothetical, hence why I was arguing the point I was arguing.

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If we are speaking purely hypothetical, then I still claim we could argue forever even in a logical fashion (since debators do that all the time, but the arguments would be weaker eventually)

Eh, we could, but I'm not really inclined to go into month-long debates.

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, but a perfect person making all the right decisions (assuming the right decisions are actually 'the right' decisions if you know what I mean) should have the shortest path to being successful.

True.

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I won't say they will be more successful, because a person making mistakes could eventually become perfect as well (hypothetically speaking)

That's debatable.  Assuming that they have learned from their mistakes, they could become close to perfect, but since they had failed previously, they might not be able to achieve true perfection.

Quote
and achieve that same level of success. Of course the person on the shorter path will have more time to be more successful.

And might also have the time to continue being increasingly successful.  We must assume that, if he continues to make the right decisions, he will not stagnate at one level of perfection but soar to exponentially higher levels of success.

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Are we finished now? Have we reached common ground?

If you want to quit, sure.  I'm not going to keep arguing a point if we're in agreement.
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I NEVER squeeze my jubblies, so that stuff wouldn't work for me.
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« Reply #69 on: August 05, 2009, 09:47:18 am »

I agree, I think we've beaten this one to death. There are other arguments, but I don't want to keep this one going.

But, now that we cleared the air a little, I will definitely get involved in the next one with you  Afro

Hmmmm, what next?
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« Reply #70 on: August 05, 2009, 09:49:39 am »

Freudian psychoanalytic theory?
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"And I also told the students that, for the sake of humanity's future, I hoped they were all sterile." - Ignatius Reilly.
Never mind what your daughter is taught in school; what she remembers is what she has learned from you.
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~Turboweasle~

I NEVER squeeze my jubblies, so that stuff wouldn't work for me.
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« Reply #71 on: August 05, 2009, 09:52:34 am »

Freudian psychoanalytic theory?

You're just trying to pick something you have personal experience with. Oedipus complex maybe  Wink jk
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« Reply #72 on: August 05, 2009, 09:57:59 am »

Oh gawd, I remember the first time we read the that play at school.  It was as a warm-up for Antigone, but all anyone cared about was that Oedipus screwed his old, saggy mom.  D:

Anyway, how about we just wait for a new debate to come up on its own.  It works better that way.
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"And I also told the students that, for the sake of humanity's future, I hoped they were all sterile." - Ignatius Reilly.
Never mind what your daughter is taught in school; what she remembers is what she has learned from you.
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I NEVER squeeze my jubblies, so that stuff wouldn't work for me.
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« Reply #73 on: August 05, 2009, 10:03:17 am »

Yes, that was my thought too. I knew you were kidding this time.
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