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A Message to All the Homosexuals

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Author Topic: A Message to All the Homosexuals  (Read 6050 times)
OhioLawyer
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« Reply #225 on: December 01, 2010, 03:55:26 pm »

um, not true.

they mapped the entire human gene.  you might be referring to the sequencing of the gene.  They completed 95% of the genetic sequence to 99.99% accuracy in 2003, but the mapping and identification of the genes was completed in 1994, early on in the project.

Obviously, genetic and biological are two very different terms.  There is NO gene for sexual orientation, so you can't call homosexuality genetic.  The human genome project has sparked many other research projects into biological effects of the genes, but that doesn't change the fact that homosexuality is not genetic, only leaves open the door for biological factors (which no one has still yet to make any connection to homosexuality).

Let me ask you this:

1) Did you state that there is no sexual orientation gene?
2) Did you state that homosexuality was biological and not genetic?
3) Did you state that heterosexuality was biological and not genetic?
4) Did you state that because procreation requires a man and a woman (gender is based on genetics), one could deduce that heterosexuality is essentially genetic?

I assume you will answer "yes" to all of these questions.

Just because being a man and woman is genetic and we need a man and a woman to procreate does not mean that heterosexuality is genetic. You could basically state the same thing with two men (gender being genetic) who are drawn to one another in a sexual way (homosexuality). It's obviously in their genes to be drawn to one another considering being a man is genetic and they have urges for one another....Procreation is a whole other topic and does not change the fact that there is no sexual orientation gene. That's why your statements are contradictory. Sure, you didn't use the exact words "sexual orientation is genetic", but you stated it was in the genes, but only heterosexuality, not homosexuality because that suits your purpose. Just because it suits your purpose doesn't make it correct.

You're statements are contradictory. I've shown you that. If you want to be wrong and ignore the facts then that's your prerogative.


lol um no.  They are not contradictory.  I have shown that over and over.  You don't get it.  You still seem too stupid to get that I AM NOT SAYING HETEROSEXUALITY IS GENETIC!  Geez.  The phrase I used was "in the genes".  That was not intended in any way to say that heterosexuality is genetic.  And had you had half a brain, you could have deduced that from the discussion.  

Let me say this again for you slowly.  Heterosexuality is biological, not genetic.  Sex (gender) IS genetic.  So while heterosexuality is NOT genetic, it is based on something that is genetic.  That's while it is "in our genes."  That phrase is a figure of speech.  You might hear someone say, "That kid is ornery.  It is in his genes."  Yet there is no gene for orneriness.  However some other aspects of humans that are related to ornriness are genetic.  There is a big difference between something being genetic (i.e. there is a gene on our genome that directly controls it), and something being "in our genes" and simply being based off of something else that is genetic.

I'm sorry you don't understand.  You simply seem incapable.  Yet you want to also add rebuttal that the same works for a man and a man.  LOL that is laughable.  It does not work the same in any way.  There is not a point based on actual human genetics that ties homosexuality to genetics in the same way that heterosexuality does.  Allow me to get you a copy of a textbook on the human reproductive system.  LOL.  Good try, but it failed.  The connection doesn't exist.

THAT is why I can say that there is no sexual orientation gene (because it's true), and at the same time refer to heterosexuality as being "in our genes" and not say that homosexuality is also in our genes.  

You have once again proven your lack of understanding of the difference between biological and genetic.  You now talk about "urges" and somehow say that is genetic.  Our urges are NOT genetic, but biological.  Therein lies the difference and that is exactly why you don't understand.  

Male and female is genetic.  Sexual orientation is not.  Heterosexuality is not an orientation, but rather basic human biology.  You seem to lump heterosexuality and homosexuality together and think they must both be the same in origin.  However, they are not.  One is natural and one is not.  One is based on human anatomy and biology (and even genetics when you consider male and female), while the other is not.

It is obvious that your beliefs on the subject won't allow you to see that my statements are not contradictory based on my beliefs.  You refuse to understand that our points of view differ so drastically that you won't take my beliefs into account in reconciling the statements.  You can't see past your own opinion.
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« Reply #226 on: December 01, 2010, 05:52:51 pm »

What's the point in even reading that crap. You are an egotistical ****. You think that by calling others stupid it strengthens your argument. Don't say it's in the genes moron. Stick with your biological story and be done with it. I used to think you were intelligent, but you've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you aren't. I've never seen someone who thinks they are so smart be so stupid. I would love to see you in a courtroom with these pathetic arguments. If your win rate is more than 5% then the justice system is obviously in shambles.

You contradicted yourself. End of story. Be a **** idiot about it and never admit it. You have to live with your stupidity, I don't  Afro Thank God  Afro
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« Reply #227 on: December 01, 2010, 05:57:49 pm »

Man it'll be a while before I get to the PC, so I'll take a whack at it from the phone again. Tongue

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Firstly, I will state that I haven't read the bible cover to cover, but that doesn't mean I've had no exposure to religion, the bible, etc. So, I have the right frame of mind when reading the bible.
That's good then, because there are people who read it for the sole purpose to find contradictions and use rebuttles. Someday I'd like to learn more about muslims, but not for the purpose of argument, but to see what makes them different in their beliefs, and try to understand Islamic beliefs.
 

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The reason I brought up Leviticus in the first place is that Ohio stated he believed and followed every word of the bible. So, I just wanted to point out that there are pieces of the bible that didn't seem to be followed in modern day.Now, you two both state that Leviticus is for Israel only. I ask why? Why only Israel? Why not the rest of God's followers? Different rules? Isn't that discrimination? I would think we all live by a standard set of rules in order to be judged by him in a fair manner.
Ohio elaborated tis already, and ill just say that it WAS for Isreal, and only Isreal because they were his chosedn covenant people. He couldn't uphold the same standards to people that hadn't even heard of him. Judgement on people without knowledge of God will be different than judgment on those who chose to follow his standard.



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You stated that the laws were from that time, where is the updated bible describing the laws that should be followed today?
Ohio also touched on this and ill add some as well.

The old testament law was for the covenant people before Christ. For example, they had to sacrifice animals to show their repentance. That was the law. When Christ was crucified, he atoned for our sin and payed the ransom of it by experiencing physical death. He became the sacrificial lamb (which was symbolic of the sacrificial animals in Old testament) in doing this the sacrificial  law changed and he gave us two "new" commandments (which aren't really new, but just a summary of all of the previous commandments):  love God, and love your neighbor. (Don't know the exact scripture off the top of my head)

Jesus said that He didn't come to give us a new law, but to fulfill the old. Consider the original ten commandments, do they not outline exactly what Jesus says there? Now our temporal punishment is subject to where we live and the laws established there, (as well as a loss of God's holy spirit and presence of it). Our eternal punishment comes when we stand before God to be judged. 


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You are saying that we are to follow the laws of the land even if they contradict what is written in the bible? That's very confusing. How do you know when the laws of the land go too far? How do you know which ones to follow if there are a number of contradictions?
well, we are told not to kill, yet we serve in the armed forces and kill to protect out counrty. Am I a hypocrite in doing so?  Luckily the law of the land doesn't tell me to steal, cheat, lie, etc. Otherwise I would leave.


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For example, if the laws of the land state that kechua marriage is legal then shouldn't priests, pastors, ministers, etc have to perform kechua marriages? If they don't then they are going against the laws of the land.
Not sure how it is in Canada, but here we have seperation of church and state, so a pastor, minister, etc...is at liberty to chose what ceremonies they will and will not perform.

Later on I'll give you an example of our liberty to obey or dissobey the law.


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You and Ohio disagreed on who should carry out the punishments in Leviticus. To me, it's not clear as to who should carry out those punishments; however, I don't understand how God can put someone to death if there is heaven and hell....symbolically speaking you could say that death means eternal punishment, but why didn't he just say that? Why didn't he say eternal damnation. Isn't that phrase used elsewhere in the bible? If so, then that would lead me to believe he meant death in our lifetime. I'm deducing here  Wink
You're opening many doors now. Ill try and answer as best as I can. Keep in mind that I'm just stating things to the best of my current knowledge. I've only scratched the surface of scripture as I started 7 years ago, so I don't know everything there is to know.

As far as death goes, it can be literal, and that's why the people were told to stone the sinner. He sustained people to positions of authority and they were expected to carry the law out. If they chose not to then they will be judged for that.

Death is also symbolic. Spiritual death is something that occures as a result of sin. When Adam sinned the consequence was death. Well, physical death DID result, just not at that moment. Also, he experienced spiritual death, where  God's presence left him and he and Eve were kicked out of the garden of eden and left to fend for themselves. We are told though that when we repent then we are entitled to his spiritual presence again- this is one example of the spiritual death that can occure while we are alive. The other spiritual death is the "eternal damnation" one where when we die, had we chose not to repent and turned our back on God then we will not have his presence for all time and eternity (heaven). This is the worse possible death and was a scaring  tactic used for the people of Isreal I believe.

Also, as far as him not explaining everything to us, all I can say is that there's no point of giving a test if you're just going to give the answers to every question before hand. We are here to be tried and tested to see if we sincerely want to follow him, so he only needs to give us the information we need to pass that test.



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So, that means the people should be the judge and not God as we haven't seen God kill these people.
in OT Isreal yes, the people were to judge in richeousness.


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You are saying that we aren't killing these people because times have changed and we can ignore those laws now. Or those only applied to Israel.
Yep. We are living in nations that aren't lead by him anymore, therefore we need to abide by the laws of the land. If there was a nation lead by him then I'd gladly move there, but that's not so; therefore I go to His church where I believe he is in control and guiding it.


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And if those apply to Israel then I assume they are still valid laws...I haven't checked the laws of Israel, but I'm guessing they don't follow them as they are written.That brings me back to my initial questions....How do we know what laws we can ignore?
That particular law (in Leviticus 20) applied to OT Israel. I'm not Jewish so I don't know the rules in current Israel.  And to your question of what laws to ignore; we are all free to ignore any and all law that we chose to. Again, God doesn't force us to do anything we don't want to. 



Thanks for the insight Kreater  Afro We'll take this offline and discuss in some other forum. This one is soiled with the arrogance and stupidity of others.
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« Reply #228 on: December 01, 2010, 07:17:37 pm »

I'm glad someone finally agrees with me on Ohio and his arguing.
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« Reply #229 on: December 02, 2010, 12:53:16 pm »

This thread is exactly why I don't do politics or religion on message boards anymore.   Wink
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« Reply #230 on: December 02, 2010, 01:10:06 pm »

I'm glad someone finally agrees with me on Ohio and his arguing.

Yes sir.

This thread is exactly why I don't do politics or religion on message boards anymore.   Wink

Well, I usually don't either jd and most of the religion stuff from me was questions more than factual statements. The contradiction actually had nothing to do with religion. I merely pointed out the contradiction and got attacked personally for its uncovering. I pointed it out because a person has no credibility in a discussion when they make contradicting statements. I gave him a chance to pick one path or the other, but he refused and continued to attack me. I find people react that way when they always want to be right. Typical tactic: attack the person who uncovered the contradiction to try and take the attention away from the actual mistake.
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« Reply #231 on: December 02, 2010, 01:36:16 pm »

I have a question then. Keep in mind that I have no scientific experience in this field and am just curious.

If homosexuality is genetic, hereditary, biological, yadda yadda, etc...then what about this:

I've been attracted to females since at least the age of 5 (I wasn't grossed out by girls like all the other boys at that age). I was a literal man-**** intil I got married and have 2 children. I wonder this though. Say someday that I have a change of mind/heart and leave my wife in search for a man and become attracted to one and eventually become involved with everything that comes along with homosexuality. Would one say that all along I was a homo because I was born with the genes I was, or just that my urges and preference changed and I gave into them?
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« Reply #232 on: December 02, 2010, 02:02:56 pm »

I have a question then. Keep in mind that I have no scientific experience in this field and am just curious.

If homosexuality is genetic, hereditary, biological, yadda yadda, etc...then what about this:

I've been attracted to females since at least the age of 5 (I wasn't grossed out by girls like all the other boys at that age). I was a literal man-**** intil I got married and have 2 children. I wonder this though. Say someday that I have a change of mind/heart and leave my wife in search for a man and become attracted to one and eventually become involved with everything that comes along with homosexuality. Would one say that all along I was a homo because I was born with the genes I was, or just that my urges and preference changed and I gave into them?

I've never claimed to be an expert on this. I only pointed out the contradiction.

But, from the stories I've heard about homosexuals who have married and had children, they claim that they only tried to be with women because it was what they were taught and they always knew they were attracted to men. So, according to the stories I've heard, I haven't ever heard one like that. I haven't heard someone say they were attracted to women and then switched to men.
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« Reply #233 on: December 02, 2010, 02:44:10 pm »

One of my high school friends was attracted to women and used to **** areound too, and he's currently homo. He never said that he was attracted to men all along but that it just turned out that way. Maybe one day I'll ask him if he thinks he was born that way or if he just had a change in preference.
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« Reply #234 on: December 02, 2010, 03:03:36 pm »

yeah, I can't really comment on that one because I'm not kechua and like I said the only stories I know the people claim to have been kechua all along. I will say though that I think it's possible some people go through traumatic experiences that make them confused about whether they are kechua or not...
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« Reply #235 on: December 02, 2010, 03:38:20 pm »

lol at the word filter for "gay"
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« Reply #236 on: December 04, 2010, 05:35:27 pm »

I love how I am highly successful in the courtroom, but both DDD and Term both eventually look stupid enough in arguing with me that they always resort to calling that into question. 


If you want to lump yourself in with DDD, Term, go ahead.  Maybe not the brightest horse to hitch your wagon to, but feel free.

You can attempt to argue semantics all you want, I'll stick with arguing facts, thanks.  Good night.
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« Reply #237 on: December 05, 2010, 11:51:45 pm »

I have to agree with tred333 and hope everyone reads those comments
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« Reply #238 on: December 06, 2010, 11:04:49 am »

I don't need to hitch my wagon to anyone. I pointed out the facts and you ignore them because you can't admit that you are wrong. You're one of those people that ignores the truth because the truth actually makes a fool of you.
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« Reply #239 on: December 06, 2010, 11:23:30 am »

I love how I am highly successful in the courtroom

Would you like a pillow for that dream?
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