General Discussion / Entertainment => The All-Seeing Eye => Topic started by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 03, 2012, 03:14:18 pm|
Title: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 03, 2012, 03:14:18 pm I know we had a long discussion on this previously, but I wasn't able to fully convey the points I wanted to get across, and I'm bored as shit at work waiting for a phone call, so I wanted to try this again. I will also put out a breakdown of the best possible way to sell and regulate marijuana should it become legal, even though I advise against it.
I'll start off by saying I'm not against the plant itself. I do not believe that it is any more harmful than alcohol or tobacco which are currently legal. I do however believe, that legalizing marijuana will not provide any money for the economy, even if it is taxed, and distributed like cigarettes and alcohol. The opportunity cost of legalizing it is far too high and simply not feasible at this point in time. Tax and Distribution There's a few ways this can be done. Option one involves a store dedicated simply to selling marijuana and marijuana products, similar to LCBO and SAQ stores found in Ontario and Quebec that liquor. These are crown corporations and the government can charge anything the want, so long as the demand is there, as they are the only corporation in the business. This works well. It is taxed severely, and it is very profitable. Consider a bottle of Bacardi Superior White Rum. I paid $15 duty free for a 40 oz bottle coming home from Belgium, where as I am charged $36 for a 40 oz bottle at an LCBO store, a huge mark up in price. Unfortunately, I am incapable of distilling my own rum, and of course, very few people are capable of doing so at home. This is a very important distinction. Another option involves something similar to the Netherlands, where people are able to purchase the product for consumption in coffee shops. This however, leads to a magnitude of problems. What happens if you purchase marijuana in the coffee shop, and leave? Is that a punishable offence? Are we going to restrict the smoking of weed to these areas, and these areas only? A third option would be allow people to buy seeds, and grow their own, but taxing personal supplies would be virtually impossible, and is therefore, not feasible. Consumption and Public Use One of the biggest issues is whether or not consumption in non-designated areas will be legal. Can you carry it with you? If so, possession is fine, and people can bring it wherever they choose. Public intoxication, in layman's terms, is a law created to prevent overly intoxicated individuals from disrupting the peace in a public area. It's not the most strictly enforced rule, but it exists. How would this work for weed? (Preparing for Stoners to get all mad saying you can't get that messed up on weed) We need to define this level. Walking across the street while ripped can be dangerous in the same way that being drunk and crossing the street can be. Driving and Marijuana Use A simple topic, but important none the less. We've all heard people talk about how they can drive just fine after smoking, but weed still impairs you mental abilities for a certain period of time. With this in mind, it will need to be enforced, in the same way that drinking and driving is enforced. Everyone knows we shouldn't drink and drive, but some idiots still feel the need to do so, and it will undoubtedly have with weed as well. There is however a major difference. Alcohol levels can be tested quickly and easily, while THC levels can not, without a drug test, which are more time consuming than a breathalyser test. Price Back to the LCBO mark up price. Not all of that mark up comes simply from tax, as the LCBO has expenses as well. I bought a case of beer, which I had to pay duty on, as I was only allowed one bottle, and it was 65% tax. Are we going to tax weed at the same level as we tax alcohol and tobacco products? Before we can tax it, we need to produce it. Mass producing the product is the most likely option, and it would lower production costs. The issue is, who is allowed to produce it? Is anyone able to produce it, so long as they receive a government permit? A bidding war between companies is another option. Whomever is able to produce it for the lowest price, gets a contract. This could be expanded to allow the different types of marijuana. The current price for a gram of weed usually runs around $10-$12 in North America, and more expensive depending on the speciality types. Let's assume a 65% tax rate on the product. A company would have to be able to able to sell one gram of weed to coffee shops or controlled stores for less than $7 to match the current price. We must also include the expenses of the store. Let's consider what a company would need to produce. Every company has expenses. Keep in mind $7 is the asking price, but since it would also come at the cost of not performing an illegal activity, people might be willing to pay more, upwards of $20-$30 a gram. However, at a certain point, the cost of weed could exceed the demand and the illegal market could thrive. What is this magical point where people stop caring about the consequences? We don't know, but it can be discovered. Market research is an amazing tool, but frankly, it's not worth doing on a large scale for a post like this. I will ask those of WU though, how much they would be willing to spend on 1 gram of legalized marijuana produced by a company. That leaves us with: X = Cost of Goods Manufactured (Expenses and Profitable for the company, and yes I realize that's not a manufacturing cost, but I'm simplifying it.) Y = Price people are willing to pay We will also assume that the stores selling these products need to pay there expenses at the same rate as a liquor store would. That's currently about 75% of the price of the product. Price of Marijuana Sold = (X * 1.65* 1.75) This number can not exceed Y, and if it does, If people are willing to pay $20 a gram for example, the costs of goods manufactured could reach $7 without issue. That $7 however must include all of the companies expenses and their profit. Can companies produce weed for $7 a gram all expenses in and still make enough money to stay in business? I don't know, and I'm not sure any of us truly know that answer. It could be determined, and I believe it's crucial that it is before weed is legalized. The Market Sit down class, it's time for a micro-economics lesson. Everyone has disposable income, but the amount each one of us has varies. Even without outlining a budget, you will find that most people spend X% on rent, Y% on food and Z% on recreation on an individual basis, assuming no major changes in income. There are other categories, but again, I don't want to get too complicated People can't borrow from X and Y, because those are essential. This means that people can only spend so much on recreation. However, people can interchange the products within their own categories. If apples are on sale, some people might choose them over bananas, effectively making them, substitute products. This isn't a great example, but I think you get the idea. The problem is, recreational funds are all substitute products. Weed isn't it's on percentages. It's reliant on the budget for recreational goods. Any money taken out of the recreational budget to purchase weed comes at the expense of other recreational activities which may include tobacco, alcohol, leisure activities or sports. In other words, it does not benefit the economy. You have two cups, one with water, and another without. You poor the water into the other cup. You are still left with the same amount of water, but just moving it to a new location. Seeing as weed is not legal in other countries, we would be unable to profit from exports. Instead of individual dealers which we currently have profiting from this industry, you have corporations profiting and the government receiving tax dollars to distribute and manage. Seeing as we are designed to be primarily a free market economy, this isn't ideal. Unauthorized Possession and Use I think we can pretty well ignore the idea that everyone would be able to grow their own, as it would be impossible to tax and control. So now, we have controlled environments where this can be purchased. There's an issue. Story time. What happens if John Doe decides the controlled prices are too high and he can grow his own, in the same way that people do now? He hides it well, and he is not caught for growing, as growing is still illegal. He leaves his house and he is carrying 5 grams of weed, when a cop stops him and finds the 5 grams, but the cop is unable to prove that he grew the weed himself. John is let go, and he continues on with his day as a cowboy. There are very few ways to stop this from happening. I'd like to hear what your solution to this issue would be, as it could be a major issue. Individual packaging is an option, where people are able to purchase pre-made joints, bowls, and buckets. The packaging would have to be designed in a way that it can not reproduced or re-used, which is an added expense to the companies. Enforcement Even though possession and personal use would be legal, there is still some enforcement to be done. A lot of the time and money spent on charging people with possession would disappear, but not completely, as legalized products do need enforcement. Age A reasonable debate can formed on this alone. I am an individual who believes the drinking age should be reduced to 18 and possibly lower, but it is clear the government doesn't feel that way. So, what would the age for marijuana use be? Keep in mind, many high school students and people under the age of 21 smoke weed, and would most likely to continue to do so if it was legalized. This adds to the enforcement cost described above. Health Risk I'll try to leave this one up to you guys. I'm not a medical professional nor have I studied the short and long term effects of **** use. While I agree it's not any worse than alcohol or tobacco health wise, it's still not "good" for you. Theoretical Proposal I am clearly not in favour of it being legalized, but should it become legal, there's a few things we can do to minimize the damage. 1. Sell it in controlled stores only - No coffeeshops or anything like that. People will purchase it from these stores and pay a ton of tax. 2. Only one company is allowed to produce - This company will be a crown corporation. 3. Zero tolerance on smoking and driving - Eliminate the needs for a baseline measure. 4. Individualized packaging - Prevents the use of unauthorized marijuana. 5. No advertising of the product - Follows the same rules as cigarettes. 6. No one under the age of 18 is allowed to smoke - Once you can serve, you can make your own decisions. 7. Excessive punishment for those caught growing or distributing - Feel the same way about most laws. The more serious the punishment, the less likely people are to commit it. 8. No smoking in public - There can be designated areas for it, but it will not be like cigarettes where you can smoke walking down the street. 9. Monitored THC levels in the weed - No insanely strong stuff These are just 9, and I'm sure there's more that I'm missing, but this is the optimal way to go about legalizing the product and actually benefiting from doing so. Conclusion I didn't expect this to be 2000 words, but there's a lot I think we ignore when looking at the subject. Keep in mind the government operates to help their citizens. If the government receives no gain from something, odds are, the people do not either. Would legalizing possession help the economy? Very unlikely given the nature of the drug world. There are tons of benefits to legalization, and I am well aware of them, but it's not as easy as looking at potential monetary gain from one item and ignoring the products similar to it that are currently legal. I'm not against the search to learn more about the topic. I just feel there is no baseline for a market such as this. We have the Netherlands which has an interesting system but I have yet to find a study that has looked at the economic impact from a large scale point of view, instead of just looking at the revenue generated from it. TL;DR Don't be lazy. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 03, 2012, 03:36:46 pm http://m.lvsun.com/news/2001/feb/16/jessica-williams-found-guilty-in-deaths-of-six-tee/
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Gift on August 03, 2012, 03:44:30 pm tl;dr
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 03, 2012, 03:46:35 pm Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 03, 2012, 05:06:57 pm hmmmm
"Nobody needs medical mari juana more than the people who are trying to stop medical mari juana." -Joe Rogan Sad, sad world. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 03, 2012, 05:22:07 pm I knew you were going to quote an Economist like Joe Rogan!
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 03, 2012, 05:29:12 pm Well, the point is it shouldn't be an economist debate. It should be about the human experience.
Here's a situation: You're on an island with 50 other people. Some of you want to smoke MJ, but one guy says he doesn't want you to smoke MJ or he'll lock you in a cage (essentially today's society - smoke weed, get caught, go to jail). You would have to get rid of that person somehow. Forget the economist discussion. This economy is based on money with no backing. Things can't keep going on like they are. It's bound to change somehow. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 03, 2012, 05:31:09 pm The human experience? You've got to be kidding me. I suppose you'd like to go back to the trade and barter system too?
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 03, 2012, 05:39:22 pm No, I'm not kidding you. You have a right to your body. Nobody owns you.
Therefore, you should be able to do w/e you want with your body as long as you aren't harming another person. You should be able to smoke MJ, and use other drugs like her0in, alcohol, w/e your preference. You should be able to eat potato chips and ice cream. You should be able to sell your body for sex and not get arrested. I don't recommend these things, but you should have the right. " Keep in mind the government operates to help their citizens" I don't think they have our best interest at all times. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 03, 2012, 05:41:31 pm You totally missed the point of this. If you hurt the economy, you hurt people. If you legalize marijuana, you hurt the economy, ergo, you are hurting people.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 03, 2012, 05:48:13 pm No, I understand your point, but it's still unnecessary for MJ to be illegal. It's a great medicinal tool. Most of these pharmaceutical drugs are disgusting.. some of them have very similar effects to her0in, ****, speed, etc.. (oxy cotton, adderall, just to name a few). Should we have regulations on driving while under the influence of these?
There is a lot of filth that helps the economy. That doesn't mean all of it is okay. With your logic, you're right, there is no money in a cure, there is only money in a temporary solution. That is why doctors come up with these pharmaceutical drugs that help to relieve symptoms, but also to keep them coming back, so they can keep the machine going... The world's a business, so I know exactly what you mean. It's all just very wrong to me and I can't see MJ being legalized for a long, long time. I used to think maybe it would be legalized in the next 5-10 years, but now I'm not very sure about that. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Food Library on August 03, 2012, 06:24:45 pm http://m.lvsun.com/news/2001/feb/16/jessica-williams-found-guilty-in-deaths-of-six-tee/ That girl hadn't slept in 2 days though. The amount in her system wasn't enough to cause impairment but they had changed the law shortly before that said trace amounts would be considered impaired. They made an example of her. Also why did they have teens on a damn freeway. I don't feel safe on the freeways here even in a car. lol Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 03, 2012, 06:51:11 pm Meh, not sure. Yeah, I think its BS to have them on the side of a major hwy too.
Also, I remember one time while we were stones and my boy was driving. We were stopped at a light and a car pulled up next to us. My other boy stuck his head out the passenger side and said "wus up?1" to the guy next to us. He freaked out and gassed it. My friend that was driving also gassed it not realizing we were still at a red light and we came within inches of hitting an on-coming car that would have surely killed us. Mind you, my friend was A-B honor roll student and has 2 degrees now, so I know he's not an incompetent idiot, but because we were stoned he wasn't thinking clearly and we nearly escaped death. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 03, 2012, 07:11:25 pm Meh, not sure. Yeah, I think its BS to have them on the side of a major hwy too. Also, I remember one time while we were stones and my boy was driving. We were stopped at a light and a car pulled up next to us. My other boy stuck his head out the passenger side and said "wus up?1" to the guy next to us. He freaked out and gassed it. My friend that was driving also gassed it not realizing we were still at a red light and we came within inches of hitting an on-coming car that would have surely killed us. Mind you, my friend was A-B honor roll student and has 2 degrees now, so I know he's not an incompetent idiot, but because we were stoned he wasn't thinking clearly and we nearly escaped death. Chain reaction of stupidity starting with the first friend who yelled out the window. My friend almost ran a red light/almost made a turn into a fence one night when he was driving high. My roommate was in the passenger seat and I was in the back. Let's smoke weed, he said. I'm a good driver, he said. fail Speaking from MY experiences personally, and I don't recommend people drive under the influence of anything, but I have driven while high 4 or 5 times... every time I drove safe and sound. I would drive closer to the speed limit and pay much more attention to signs and passerby. I'm a pretty good driver in the first place, but I just drove smoother while high. Being too high can **** a lot of people up, though. Don't drive while intoxicated, noobs. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 03, 2012, 07:24:20 pm Of course it was a chain reaction, but I'm fairly certain that a fully sober person would have kept his foot on the pedal.
Oh, and my friend didn't yell. He did the head-nod in an upward motion and said it. The other dude was around in his 40's and was prolly scared shitless. :D Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 03, 2012, 07:34:19 pm Yeah, a sober person probably would have kept his shet together, but I can see why your friend may have did what he did.
When you're high as a kite and a situation like that happens, you might get scared because you'd be thinking "why the hell did this guy just speed up super fast and screech his tires?" You'd probably think you were in danger for whatever reason. Don't drive while you're on the moon, kids. Many people can keep their shet together, but some just get too anxious. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 03, 2012, 07:45:30 pm When you're high as a kite and a situation like that happens, you might get scared because you'd be thinking "why the hell did this guy just speed up super fast and screech his tires?" Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 03, 2012, 08:34:19 pm Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: MG Maxdaddy on August 03, 2012, 11:25:26 pm "I'd like to hear what your solution to this issue would be, as it could be a major issue. Individual packaging is an option, where people are able to purchase pre-made joints, bowls, and buckets."
"buckets" made me giggle. That's the store I want to shop at. "One bucket please" :) Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 03, 2012, 11:28:16 pm Btw I live in SoCal now, weed should be legalized f'sho maaaaan
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Permanent Poopface on August 03, 2012, 11:28:45 pm I haven't read any of this topic but it simply won't ever be legal because pharmaceutical companies won't allow that to happen
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Zero254 on August 04, 2012, 01:27:37 am Lot of the time people lace it with other stuff which makes them worse to try to "enhance" their high.
those people can go fly a kite. Alcohol is legal, only a matter of time before weed is. Anything and driving should be a no no though. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 04, 2012, 04:58:03 am I don't think people lace weed a "lot of the time". You lose money like that.
"Oh here, I'll sell you an eighth for an average price of an eighth, but I'll lace it with some **** and heroin." - No one ever Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Zero254 on August 04, 2012, 05:21:32 am People do it all the time.
I don't, but most of the people I knew that did do it laced that **** with everything known to man. **** Junkies some of my clients were when i fixed their stuff. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: herman on August 04, 2012, 02:27:37 pm It should have never been made illegal, the wheels turn slow. They gotta iron out how to make the most money from it first
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Food Library on August 04, 2012, 04:30:01 pm I'm not saying that driving stoned is a good idea just that it should be treated like alcohol. In your own home it's fine but outside of that it shouldn't be legal.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Red Fatality on August 06, 2012, 05:05:00 pm No, I'm not kidding you. You have a right to your body. Nobody owns you. Therefore, you should be able to do w/e you want with your body as long as you aren't harming another person. You should be able to smoke MJ, and use other drugs like her0in, alcohol, w/e your preference. You should be able to eat potato chips and ice cream. You should be able to sell your body for sex and not get arrested. I don't recommend these things, but you should have the right. " Keep in mind the government operates to help their citizens" I don't think they have our best interest at all times. I agree with everything but i do not want to see the harder drugs like pcp and **** legalized no ****ing way. Also i don't really agree with being about to sell your body for sex it would dumb down the women of this generation not to mention the amount of diseases that would be spread. Also im kind of old school sex should be something special between two people not something bought thats just my opinion. I think weed should be legalized. Its not bad what so ever imo all it does is chill you out some pretty much just relax's your mood, beer is far worse imo. Way to many people are locked up because of it just seems silly to me. Also all of these ****ing mexican drug cartel that kill thousands of people and cut peoples heads off, feed people to lions and send the video tapes to their familys and **** over weed. You stick it too them by legalizing it, that is there money making crop you legalize it and that **** will stop drastically because they won't make nearly enough when its widely available. It wouldn't be worth it for them. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 06, 2012, 06:21:38 pm uhhhhh wow, what a terrible argument by the OP. In depth!?!? You are a 13 year old scrub.
Legalized weed would create tons of revenue for the government. And more importantly, this isn't about the government. Who gives a laughing turd!. The reason it should be legalized has nothing to do with taxes. It should be legal because there is no reason for it to be illegal. We are free men. The drug has no major health risks. Of course drunk driving laws will be applied. They already are! I'll tell you what, 99% of any DUI accidents I hear about are caued by alcohol, not weed. Of course minors won't be able to buy it. Of course you will not be able to smoke in public. It will be just like alcohol. You can not walk around and drink liquor (except in select counties). Basically, alcohol laws will apply to weed. Weed will be sold at the supermarket, it will be sold and liquor stores, everywhere you can find alcohol. "Camel Marijuana Cigarettes" You will be able to buy pure joints, blended joints (weed and tobacco), edibles, etc etc, and it will be regulated by the FDA! You can GROW your own. Just like you can GROW an apple tree. Weed cultivation is NOT dangerous like alcohol production, hence no laws against it are neccessary. You have forgotten the biggest benefit of legalization! It saves the government all the money it WASTES on the court and prison system that locks up small-time offenders! Benefits: 1. Destruction of the Mexican drug cartels 2. Decrease in government legal and prison costs 3. Increased tax revenue 4. Health regulations on the product 5. New industry brings a ton of new jobs (cultivation, administrative, sales, marketing, retail, infrastructure, etc etc) 6. Small business growth Sorry kiddo, the benefits absolutely, without a doubt, outweigh the cons. Take your morals and old-man fears and shove em. Your fear of a stoned guy walking on the street should not impact the rights of the entire country. Laws will protect people from weed related crimes. Offenders will be prosecuted, just like with alcohol. A drunk is MUCH more volatile than a stoner. Marijuana has every practical / logical reason to be legalized. ------------ If anything, the federal government should give power to the states to decide, who will then give counties / citys the ability to create ordinances that represent their population's wishes. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Baw on August 06, 2012, 06:25:02 pm And more importantly, this isn't about the government. Who gives a laughing turd!. The reason it should be legalized has nothing to do with taxes. It should be legal because there is no reason for it to be illegal. We are free men. I love you.Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 06:39:15 pm Quote Legalized weed would create tons of revenue for the government. Sure thing Jim Cramer. But an increase in X revenue would lead to a decrease in Y revenue, ergo, it's not a huge boost to the economy. Quote And more importantly, this isn't about the government. Who gives a laughing turd!. The reason it should be legalized has nothing to do with taxes. It should be legal because there is no reason for it to be illegal. We are free men. The drug has no major health risks. Neither does insider trading, should that be legal too? No health risks and it ruins the economy, good plan. Quote You can GROW your own. Just like you can GROW an apple tree. Weed cultivation is NOT dangerous like alcohol production, hence no laws against it are neccessary. So now you have to find a way to tax this, otherwise people will just grow their own and the magic revenue you were talking about disappears. Quote You have forgotten the biggest benefit of legalization! It saves the government all the money it WASTES on the court and prison system that locks up small-time offenders! You're assuming people will not participate in any illegal activity with regards to the drug. Big assumption there my friend. You were an idiot 5 years ago, and not much has changed. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 06, 2012, 07:08:13 pm 1. Wow you know nothing of economics. You are making the assumption that people spend every dime they make. Hence, money spent at X leaves Y. You are wrong. A new industry facilitate commerce. More commerce = more jobs, more sales, more revenue and more tax income. You are thinking that alcohol and cigarettes will take a hit? Alcohol and cigarettes have flourished even though taxes are consistently raised on them. Herb will not replace them, it will add to them. Remember, weed is already here! It just isn't taxed and corporations can't dive in.
Another point = ALCOHOL AND CIGARETTE COMPANIES WILL PROFIT OFF OF WEED. Camel will cultivate, all of them will. Smirnoff will offer weed infused vodka. It already exists, google it! 2. Insider trading was made illegal to try and create a fair market and protect shareholders. It has nothing to do with this debate lol 3. The government does not tax apples grown at home, so why would it tax home grown herb? If you think the masses of smokers will not BUY, you are sadly mistaken. It costs money to grow and not everyone is willing to put in the time and money to do so. The VAST MAJORITY of smokers do NOT grow. Specialty products will be made as well, such as edibles and blends that home growers can not produce themselves. If users do decide to grow, guess what, the SUPPLIES they buy to grow will generate tax revenue! Do you really think Sally soccer mom is going to grow? nope. Furthermore, even if you do grow, there will be times you are out and you have none. Maybe on vacation, or maybe your plants are not producing yet. Everyone will buy. 4. What illegal activity? If it is legal, there is no illegal activity! Of course you'll get people getting DUIs, etc, but all the guys in jail are there due to possession and sales. The number of offenders will be cut down dramatically. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 06, 2012, 07:13:09 pm Portugal's crime rate is down roughly 50% since decriminalizing drugs about a decade ago.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 06, 2012, 07:13:23 pm I'd like to point out that the DEA also wouldn't require as much funding.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 06, 2012, 07:37:06 pm I think the destruction of the drug cartels is a much bigger point than most people let on. These are some of the most violent, intrinsically evil people literally ever. Getting rid of them by legalizing Mary Jane would be the #1 pro
the us is selfish, though, and doesn't give a **** about innocent civilians in Mexico dying... If it happened in here like it does over there it would be a different debate Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 08:19:05 pm Quote You are making the assumption that people spend every dime they make. Hence, money spent at X leaves Y. You are wrong. A new industry facilitate commerce. More commerce = more jobs, more sales, more revenue and more tax income. People spend too much as it is. You're not gaining jobs, you're re-allocating them from dealers to crown corporations. Quote You are thinking that alcohol and cigarettes will take a hit? Alcohol and cigarettes have flourished even though taxes are consistently raised on them. Herb will not replace them, it will add to them. Remember, weed is already here! It just isn't taxed and corporations can't dive in. The assumption is, the market for weed will grow to current users who don't currently purchase the product. Ergo, the new market will have to be funded from somewhere else. Quote 2. Insider trading was made illegal to try and create a fair market and protect shareholders. It has nothing to do with this debate lol But it poses no health risks to the user. Quote The VAST MAJORITY of smokers do NOT grow. Why not? Because it's expensive or because the punishment for growing weed is more severe than possession? Find me a study that proves your theory. You can't legalize something on what ifs. Quote Furthermore, even if you do grow, there will be times you are out and you have none. Maybe on vacation, or maybe your plants are not producing yet. Everyone will buy. Which leads to more dealing. Why not buy off someone who is growing tax free? It would be nearly impossible to trace back where it was purchased from. Quote 4. What illegal activity? If it is legal, there is no illegal activity! Of course you'll get people getting DUIs, etc, but all the guys in jail are there due to possession and sales. The number of offenders will be cut down dramatically. People would still sell at below market rates, just like people any black market product. Portugal's crime rate is down roughly 50% since decriminalizing drugs about a decade ago. It just means people aren't being punished. Let's decriminalize murder too. Crimes rates would drop. I'd like to point out that the DEA also wouldn't require as much funding. Possibly, assuming that the price of weed can be sold at a price people are willing to pay. A black market could very well still exist. I think the destruction of the drug cartels is a much bigger point than most people let on. These are some of the most violent, intrinsically evil people literally ever. Getting rid of them by legalizing Mary Jane would be the #1 pro the us is selfish, though, and doesn't give a **** about innocent civilians in Mexico dying... If it happened in here like it does over there it would be a different debate There's many internal issues that need to be fixed before the US can start worrying about issues on an international level. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 06, 2012, 08:44:36 pm Dealers will have to get jobs + crown companies will have to expand.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 06, 2012, 08:47:00 pm Fix the internal issue and legalize MJ, in turn fixing an international issue. Boom, how's that for efficiency
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 08:57:37 pm There's nothing to gain.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 06, 2012, 09:05:08 pm Possibly, assuming that the price of weed can be sold at a price people are willing to pay. A black market could very well still exist. Good point. Though since it is easy to grow, I'd imagine the price shouldn't be too high. Would depend on the tax. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 09:08:32 pm You're looking at a huge mark up in price from the current per gram rate if it's taxed anywhere near the levels of alcohol.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 06, 2012, 09:26:51 pm Yeah, but what would a huge markup be?
I mean, if it can be grown and distributed cheaply, the percentage markup would be huge but the actual monetary increase wouldn't be so bad. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 09:35:43 pm There's a lot of expenses. The actual production might be cheaper than Joe the dealer doing it in his home, but factor in distribution costs, shipping costs, labour costs and I don't think you're looking at a relatively cheap product.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 06, 2012, 09:38:50 pm Maybe not. Too much speculation for my liking, though. My opinion is that this should be strictly a personal freedom issue, but that's merely a normative viewpoint.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 09:42:48 pm You would need a company to come out and say "I can produce this product for X amount all expenses in."
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 06, 2012, 09:53:02 pm I think its ammusing that people think cartels will decipate if its legal. Lordy that is funny. Do you think they'll think, "welp, its pointless to slang it now, let's just all go home and become farm boys."
They'll dip into other merkets too. They're not stupid. Harder drugs like meth, pcp, herone, etc will become their next main agenda. Hell, they may even become more ruthless than they are now, depending on if they get strung out on harder stuff. Let's try to keep a more open mind when it comes to the cartel, because believe me, they do. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 06, 2012, 10:25:17 pm Less demand for harder drugs = less power for cartels
Also, *amusing Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 10:29:25 pm Less demand for harder drugs = less power for cartels Also, *amusing If the cost of a government tax gram of weed is $20 a gram, and the cartels are still able to export it and sell it at a cost of $10 a gram, the demand isn't going to drop all that much. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 06, 2012, 10:43:52 pm Less demand for harder drugs = less power for cartels Also, *amusing and the cartels are still able to export it and sell it at a cost of $10 a gram, the demand isn't going to drop all that much. Big assumption there, Tex. us government vs cartels I take the government if there's $$$ to be made. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 06, 2012, 10:47:47 pm Government + Tax + Labour Laws vs. Cartels.
You missed a few variables. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 07, 2012, 01:33:40 pm Holy hell, you idiots aren't thinking big enough. Legalization gives EVERYONE access to the drug, not just your current users. The MAJORITY of the USA does NOT use, nor do they have access to your drug runners. Legalization opens the market to the MASSES, not the minority who choose to currently break the law.
Molly Housewife can run to the supermarket and buy a pack of joints for her and her gal friends whenever she wants, she doesn't have to wait until that one time she's camping with Bozo Plumber to snag a hit. Easy access for MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people! Moonshining is illegal, and I have NEVER seen moonshine available in California, NEVER. Retail DOMINATES alcohol sales, and the same will occur with jane. Majority will NOT grow. It is a novelty market. When it does become legal (and it will in our lifetimes) the impact will knock your socks off. If you are worried about a few local peddelers selling 30% below retail ruining the market, you are sadly mistaken. The whole point of legalization is to no longer break the law! Jane will be converted from a niche market into a MASS market. Open the floodgates! ----------- And I'm done with doucheydouche, his logic was stolen from his jr high's debate team. How about this numbskull? Money X comes from Money Y? How about the money that is CURRENTLY being spent on the drug will be TAXED. You can tax the CURRENT market and make billions. No displacement. Even though your whole Money X and Y crap is completely incorrect and you have no idea what you're talking about. --------------- And legalization would decimate cartels. They can't just "ramp" up harder drugs. There needs to be demand. Legalization will decrease demand of harder drugs. They'll still make money off harder stuff, but their primary market will be DESTROYED. They will become weaker and weaker. ------------------- Cartels are not going to sell Jane at $10 / gram to the end user!! There is no profit in that. There are too many hands involved. If anything you'll get locals growing and selling, who if caught will be prosecuted. They can't just hang out front of stores and steal market share like food trucks. They either start their own small business or sell on a small-scale illegally. The MAJORITY of sales will be taxed and legal! Sammy Stoner can not compete with the big boys, Camel, Marlboro, etc. Sammy Stoner will NOT provide the specialty products that will be huge hits. Edibles, infused alcohols, blends, joints, etc. You underestimate the market legalization will create. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 07, 2012, 01:55:12 pm Quote Holy hell, you idiots aren't thinking big enough. Legalization gives EVERYONE access to the drug, not just your current users. The MAJORITY of the USA does NOT use, nor do they have access to your drug runners. Legalization opens the market to the MASSES, not the minority who choose to currently break the law. Where did I argue otherwise? Quote Moonshining is illegal, and I have NEVER seen moonshine available in California, NEVER. Retail DOMINATES alcohol sales, and the same will occur with jane. Majority will NOT grow. It is a novelty market. Moon shinning is a lot harder than growing weed. Quote If you are worried about a few local peddelers selling 30% below retail ruining the market, you are sadly mistaken. The whole point of legalization is to no longer break the law! Jane will be converted from a niche market into a MASS market. Open the floodgates! You never answered the question. Would you pay $20 a gram for it? Quote How about this numbskull? Money X comes from Money Y? How about the money that is CURRENTLY being spent on the drug will be TAXED. You can tax the CURRENT market and make billions. No displacement. Even though your whole Money X and Y crap is completely incorrect and you have no idea what you're talking about. Again, you're assuming all illegal trade will stop and no one will grow their own weed. For this to work, growing your own personal stash would have to be illegal and you are clearly against that. You are clearly missing the point. If it gets legalized, the price of taxable marijuana will shoot through the fucking roof. You can't have people growing their own weed. It defeats the whole concept of taxing it. Any weed sold would need to be taxed before it reaches the end consumers, to assure that it is being taxed properly. Now answer another for me which you ignored: Insider trading doesn't pose any health risks, we should make it legal, correct? Or, or, or.... Are there other factors that contribute to the legalization of a product or service other than health risks? Wake the fuck up. This is the real world. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Red Fatality on August 07, 2012, 06:28:54 pm Also if it was legalized less amount of harder drugs will be used they wouldn't have to worry about jay dawg by the dumpsters trying to push crack and meth on them when all they wanted was a lil bit of weed. It it was processed like cigs they would just have to go to the store and pick it up instead of having to deal with individuals trying to get you hooked on something harder therefor they make more money and get a repeating customer.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 07, 2012, 06:51:48 pm Here in California, those with medical card already pay $20 a gram for premium quality. Cheaper stuff can run down to like $15. I would gladly pay $20 at the grocery store, how cool would Camel Jane Cigarettes be, damn.
Growing Jane is easier than moonshining. Though, you can't just run a process and have Jane in an hour. It takes time to grow plants, especially if you do not have all the proper hydroponic crap. People might throw a plant or two outside for fun, and it will flower once and need to be replanted lol. Even growers will have significant downtime. Only really heavy users are going to have 8 plants, 4 on and 4 off throughout the year. And growers don't need to be penalized. I have an apple tree in my back yard, and I don't have to pay taxes on it. The fruit is coming from MY LAND. There is no SALES, and hence, no tax. That being said, even growers will stop in and buy random joints, accessories, edibles and other novelty items. And, I don't follow your insider trading metaphor. Insider trading laws protect shareholders and create a fair market. Illegal Jane hurts more people than it helps, so your analogy is backwards? You were trying to be clever and picked a poor analogy in the process. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 07, 2012, 07:31:32 pm Quote Here in California, those with medical card already pay $20 a gram for premium quality. Cheaper stuff can run down to like $15. I would gladly pay $20 at the grocery store, how cool would Camel Jane Cigarettes be, damn. The distributors get massive tax deductions, which would disappear if you were to tax it properly in an effort to gain more revenue. Quote And growers don't need to be penalized. I have an apple tree in my back yard, and I don't have to pay taxes on it. The fruit is coming from MY LAND. There is no SALES, and hence, no tax. Apples don't provide a serious source of taxable revenue for the government. A product like marijuana would. If you let people grow it, people are going to sell it and again, take away from the tax revenue generated. You can't allow this if you want this system to work. Quote And, I don't follow your insider trading metaphor. Insider trading laws protect shareholders and create a fair market. Illegal Jane hurts more people than it helps, so your analogy is backwards? You were trying to be clever and picked a poor analogy in the process. That's not the argument you made. You said weed posed no health risks, and therefore, it should be legalized. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 07, 2012, 07:45:57 pm yawn i win
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 07, 2012, 07:48:19 pm Yeah, winning usually involves totally ignoring logic.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 07, 2012, 09:46:56 pm Yeah, winning usually involves totally ignoring logic. I will revive this thread when MJ is legal and it's a hit Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Baw on August 07, 2012, 10:14:47 pm Yeah, winning usually involves totally ignoring logic. I will revive this thread when MJ is legal and it's a hit Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: MG Maxdaddy on August 07, 2012, 11:21:36 pm I think the main reason users buy it is because they're scared to grow it. I've smoked on and off for more than 25 yrs and every person I know that uses would grow it if was legal to do so. I know I would cover every square inch of my back yard :D
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 08, 2012, 05:20:23 am +1 for Baw ^^
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 08, 2012, 01:48:01 pm (smrk2)
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 09, 2012, 01:56:20 pm yawn. smoking isn't even great. i'll take a brownie though plz.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Baw on August 09, 2012, 04:53:12 pm yawn. smoking isn't even great. i'll take a brownie though plz. dopeheadWU's wiid heart Founding Member Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 09, 2012, 05:28:54 pm problem???????
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Zero254 on August 09, 2012, 10:33:16 pm I don't know, being able to create your own tobacco didn't put most companies out of business since they had to use tax stickers.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Food Library on August 10, 2012, 02:31:06 am Lol Moonshine is not difficult. You just need to put corn mash under intense heat. BAM moonshine. Besides growing your own is harder than tossing some seeds in the ground and adding water.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 10, 2012, 07:04:36 am Since people in this thread have claimed there's no health risks to marijuana:
http://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/news/heavy-teenage-cannabis-use-linked-anxiety-disorders-late-20s Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: lightspeed_champion on August 10, 2012, 09:12:49 am it has also been linked to increasing the risk of schizophrenia
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 10, 2012, 09:13:34 am Quote Equally it could be that the very factors which predispose people to use cannabis early also predispose them to common mental health problems. It's neither the perfect cure for all our problems or an evil, mental-health-debilitating drug. Let's keep the bias to a minimum. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 10, 2012, 09:24:54 am But instead of getting true help for their anxiety problems, people are turning to a substance like this.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 10, 2012, 10:12:30 am You're no stranger to the fact that people are stupid. :P
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: lightspeed_champion on August 10, 2012, 10:56:15 am Quote Equally it could be that the very factors which predispose people to use cannabis early also predispose them to common mental health problems. It's neither the perfect cure for all our problems or an evil, mental-health-debilitating drug. Let's keep the bias to a minimum. That's the thing. There are examples of how incredible cannabis have been to individuals. Where it has dramatically improved their lives. On the flip side there are example of how people have become completely dependent on it and it has ruined lives. Drugs are pretty interesting. They are often good and bad, mostly in equal measure. Heroin is both euphoric and crippling. It's all like chemicals and ****. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 10, 2012, 11:04:02 am For cases of dependency I think it has more to do with the individual than the drug. But yeah, I get your point.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 10, 2012, 02:12:13 pm who cares if it is good or bad. you all probably eat fast food and you're not yapping about the health risks of that. fast food and soft drinks kill FAR more people than green.
government cant make everything bad for you illegal. we'd be left with girls in long dresses and broccoli. if you want the regulated life, go move to afghanistan Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 10, 2012, 02:15:35 pm who cares if it is good or bad. you all probably eat fast food and you're not yapping about the health risks of that. fast food and soft drinks kill FAR more people than green. government cant make everything bad for you illegal. we'd be left with girls in long dresses and broccoli. if you want the regulated life, go move to afghanistan Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Baw on August 10, 2012, 03:06:32 pm who cares if it is good or bad. you all probably eat fast food and you're not yapping about the health risks of that. fast food and soft drinks kill FAR more people than green. government cant make everything bad for you illegal. we'd be left with girls in long dresses and broccoli. if you want the regulated life, go move to iran Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 10, 2012, 05:10:45 pm who cares if it is good or bad. you all probably eat fast food Wrong. Even so, this one is easy to counter. The fast food industry provides a **** ton of jobs, far more than the liquor or tobacco industries, which means that it employs more than the marijuana industry would too. It's the perfect job for low skilled individuals. government cant make everything bad for you illegal. we'd be left with girls in long dresses and broccoli. if you want the regulated life, go move to afghanistan You bitch about a regulated life, yet you're against insider trading. You're only choosing to de-regulate things that are convenient for you. Weak. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 10, 2012, 06:59:04 pm are you for prohibition?
if so you're **** stupid. if not, you're a **** hypocrite. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 10, 2012, 07:05:03 pm are you for prohibition? if so you're ****ing stupid. if not, you're a ****ing hypocrite. With the infrastructure we currently have in place, it wouldn't be beneficial to make it illegal. Secondly, it's one of the few leisure drugs people can legally purchase, ergo, it has a huge monopoly on the market. Saturating the market with other products is nothing like an already established market. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 10, 2012, 07:39:41 pm Green will create jobs, obviously not as much as the restaurant industry, because everyone in the world needs to eat every day.
They are two different products, food is a necessity and green is a novelty. You strayed from the point entirely. I said that you can't make something illegal just because it is potentially harmful. Sunlight is harmful. Water can kill. Food kills. Pet dogs can kill. Cars kill. Cell phones kill. Luckily, individuals can control what they put in their body. Interestingly, many people don't care about health risks. They love alcohol, they love fast food, and love to drive. Every day we go out and increase the probability of shortening our lifespan. That's the thing though. It is a choice, we are aware of the risks, and it is our choice, not Preacher Dan's. We can kill ourselves with McDonalds and cigarettes, but can't smoke a little green? Legalize it, and regulate it, just like we do with everything else. As far as insider trading, the same applies. It is legal to participate in the market, but it is regulated to ensure a fair, transparent market. Alcohol is legal, but production, sales and use are regulated. Fast food is legal, but food quality, restaurant cleanliness, and nutritional transparency are regulated. They key is to stop sending people to jail for personal choices that have 0 impact on those around them. A great example is loud music after 10 p.m. Sure it is your property, but the music travels beyond your land lines and disturbs the peace of others. Hence, ordinances are in place to prevent it. Next, look at alcohol. It is legal, but there are restrictions. You can only drink at home or in designated private places, such as bars. You can't walk down the street with it because it can disturb the peace and may lead to consumption by minors. If you are at a bar, it is actually illegal for them to let you leave if they feel you are too drunk to drive and you are the driver. They are liable. Sales are restricted to legal ages. Drunk driving is prohibited. Being drunk and disorderly in public, even if not in possession, is illegal. Basically, any action that can impact the well-being of others on public property is illegal. And that, Mr. Noob, is supposed to be the purpose of our government. To maximize individual freedoms while maintaining order and fairness among the masses. An individual should be able to do as he pleases as long as he is not directly impacting the freedoms of others. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 10, 2012, 07:45:41 pm All those things you listed are either a necessity or extremely beneficial to the economy. Weed is neither of those things, or you haven't been able to prove it. Don't tell me that it will create jobs, tell me how many jobs, who gets the jobs, where those jobs are ect.
Quote And that, Mr. Noob, is supposed to be the purpose of our government. To maximize individual freedoms while maintaining order and fairness among the masses. An individual should be able to do as he pleases as long as he is not directly impacting the freedoms of others. Is economic prosperity not a luxury people enjoy? Would destroying the economy not be impacting those in society. Forget about your small scale bullshit. The government doesn't exist to make you happy, they exist to make the country a better place. Weed doesn't do that. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 10, 2012, 07:54:10 pm ok guys. there's only one way to find out what's actually going to happen.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 10, 2012, 08:11:42 pm LOL, you are unbelievably **** stupid.
"they exist to make the country a better place... weed doesn't do that." I don't think you understand what "leisure" means... by your warped, delusional country boy logic the government should make anything that isn't vital to our survival illegal, i.e. music or television, etc. Just because weed isn't necessary, doesn't mean it should be illegal. It's not the government's responsibility to protect us from ourselves. you're probably one of those fragile girls that shits everytime you think about ... gasp! people smoking a joint?!?!? Your clinging to these age old pathetic arguments that have been **** smashed into pieces a thousand times. The pros far outweight the cons numbnuts... Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 10, 2012, 08:34:49 pm We need the fast food chains so that all the unhealthy people can get their medical prescriptions, to get their pills that keep them coming back for more. This keeps the profit machine moving. Cure for cancer? Psshhhh fuck that.
We can't cure cancer. That would stop the profits. We need to reel these people back in so they can keep showing up at the doctor's office with more symptoms for their "disorders". This is part of the reason MJ isn't legal. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 10, 2012, 11:30:00 pm We can't cure cancer. That would stop the profits. We need to reel these people back in so they can keep showing up at the doctor's office with more symptoms for their "disorders". This is part of the reason MJ isn't legal. Easy with the conspiracies, friend. Do you really think a scientist who discovered a cure for cancer (that in itself is a misunderstanding of cancer, but whatever) would keep quiet about it for any amount of money? He'd win the Nobel Prize and be engraved into the fabric of history. Every human being would know his name. Anyway: ok guys. there's only one way to find out what's actually going to happen. This. And we're going to know sooner rather than later, it seems. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 11, 2012, 01:24:18 am ^ Dr. Gearson; Gearson thearapy.
Doctors in the US are shunned from the medical community for condoning it, using it, practicing it, etc...that's why their institute is in Mexico. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 01:26:58 am I don't think you understand what "leisure" means... by your warped, delusional country boy logic the government should make anything that isn't vital to our survival illegal, i.e. music or television, etc. Just because weed isn't necessary, doesn't mean it should be illegal The pros far outweight the cons numbnuts... What pro's? All I hear about is the fucking "pro's" of legalization but not one of you idiots is capable of providing legit evidence that any of this is realistically beneficial to the economy. Not a single one. It's not the government's responsibility to protect us from ourselves. you're probably one of those fragile ****es that ****s everytime you think about ... gasp! people smoking a joint?!?! Using probables in an argument about character is beyond fucking hilarious. You know nothing about any of us, yet feel you can judge us based solely on the fact that I deny the utility of a drug for economic reasons. Your clinging to these age old pathetic arguments that have been ****ing smashed into pieces a thousand times. Please link me to one source that says other leisure revenues will remain equal and that current weed users will be willing to purchase weed for an unknown amount of money. Honestly, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, but because you're a liberal in favour of legalization, it's okay, because it's socially acceptable. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 01:51:43 am *pros
No true Scotsman all day. Of course your dumb ass won't think it's legit.. MONEYYYYYYYYY. DEATH TO CARTELLSSSS. **** you. **** republicana Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:30:59 am What pro's? All I hear about is the fucking "pro's" of legalization but not one of you idiots is capable of providing legit evidence that any of this is realistically beneficial to the economy. Not a single one. please refer to: ok guys. there's only one way to find out what's actually going to happen. you can't say for sure legalizing it will be the worst thing in the world either.....you don't have real proof?? neither side has real proof. you both look like idiots.and what paranoid said f*ck cartels. like honestly, you're a straight up D if you would rather have people dying and going to jail just bc some plant is illegal. OH AND GO FIGURE..if it becomes legal, fewer people will go to jail which means....less crowded prisons..which means...less people getting raped in prison! and it saves money!!! you do realize it's expensive to keep people in jail, right?? i didn't really look at this link so i don't know how accurate it is. i just know keeping a person in prison is expensive. http://www.fastcodesign.com/1665387/infographic-of-the-day-what-s-more-expensive-prison-or-princeton and not going to jail for wiid saves those people their TIME, their LIFE which is PRICELESS. not everyone who smokes is a criminal who deserves to be in jail. i'll admit, i really don't know how many people are in jail for a long period of time bc of wiid, so this argument could be invalid. but puh-lease don't give me that "oh, by that logic, nobody should have to go to prison at all bc it's too expensive." i'm talking about going to prison for a PLANT. smoking wiid =/= murder, etc. and because wiid isn't legalized, people haven't been able to be fully creative with it. maybe flavor it like smoking hookah bc industries can afford it, whatthefackever, idc. i am no wiid expert. but regardless, if the wiid is made really undeniably amazing to the point it's better to buy than produce, then just fantastic. jobs are created. even if you can't get creative with wiid, it will still probably be better quality at least. regardless if it creates jobs or not, WHO CARES STILL. please refer to my crappy prison argument lol. i wasn't going to involve myself in this argument, but douche really ****ed me off. he has no right to attack people for the way they are defending their beliefs, when his "predictions" and "cons" aren't any more convincing. you all can predict all you want. truth is, there's only one way to find out. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 11, 2012, 06:53:51 am Imagine if you were in jail for smoking a plant.... what a disaster.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 11, 2012, 10:03:00 am ^ Dr. Gearson; Gearson thearapy. Doctors in the US are shunned from the medical community for condoning it, using it, practicing it, etc...that's why their institute is in Mexico. After reading up on Dr. Gerson, I can't believe you just said that like it's a bad thing. The reason his practice isn't allowed in the US is, first of all, that it's absolutely crazy. And secondly because there's no evidence whatsoever that it works. Quote Gerson's therapy has not been independently tested or subjected to randomized controlled trials, and thus is illegal to market in the United States.[1] The Gerson Institute promotes the therapy by citing patient testimonials and other anecdotal evidence.[12] Gerson published a book discussing the alleged success of the therapy in 50 patients, but a review by the U.S. National Cancer Institute was unable to find any evidence that Gerson's claims were accurate.[3] Similarly, several case series by Gerson Institute staff published in the alternative medical literature suffered from significant methodological flaws, and no independent entity has been able to reproduce the claims.[3] Attempts to independently check the results of the therapy have been negative. A group of 13 patients sickened by elements of the Gerson Therapy were evaluated in hospitals in San Diego in the early 1980s; all 13 were found to still have active cancer.[10] An investigation by Quackwatch found that the Institute's claims of cure were based not on actual documentation of survival, but on "a combination of the doctor's estimate that the departing patient has a 'reasonable chance of surviving', plus feelings that the Institute staff have about the status of people who call in."[13] In 1994, a study published in the alternative medical literature described 18 patients treated for cancer with the Gerson Therapy. Their median survival from treatment was 9 months. Five years after receiving the Gerson treatment, 17 of the 18 patients had died of their cancer, while the one surviving patient had active non-Hodgkin lymphoma.[14] Like, come on, we're really going to say that this guy has the cure for cancer? His methods are right up there with homeopathy in terms of application of science but significantly more dangerous. Do you really want a castor oil enema? Maybe you want to ingest some raw calf liver extract which several patients died as a direct result of? His methods should be shunned, and I'd lose what little faith I have left in the US government if they allowed someone like that to own a medical license. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 11:49:15 am But you can't prove that these cartels will cease to exist Dopehead. You don't make things legal with understanding the benefits. There's no "Can we try it for shiggles?"
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 12:34:22 pm you are an idiot if you think the cartels will be even close to as strong without mj demand from the US
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 01:03:38 pm Prove that the demand will disappear. Prove that people will pay an inflated price on weed. You still haven't done that.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 01:42:40 pm But you can't prove that these cartels will cease to exist Dopehead. You don't make things legal with understanding the benefits. There's no "Can we try it for shiggles?" i'm not saying that they will disappear. but they will without a doubt weaken. everyone who smokes illegally right now is SUPPORTING cartels. any person with a BRAIN would rather not support the cartels, ya dig? you're so paranoid for no reason. what's the worst that can happen?? the government doesn't end up making money on it and some people stop buying medicine??? doubt it. i personally would rather take a pill than smoke.i don't care if my pros aren't good enough for you. bc your cons aren't good enough for me. also, please prove to me that you know for sure the prices for it will be sooo inflated. how do you think other companies stay in business? people still buy lucky charms even with the choice to buy the generic. people WILL pay for the better quality item/the more expensive item. this is proven in everything. i shouldn't have to tell you that. EVERYONE DOES IT. less people will be interested in the dealers anyway. say it's 9pm and i decide last minute that i want to get high.. i would rather conveniently go to the really close gas station than have to drive to my dealer to save a few bucks. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 02:03:39 pm Quote also, please prove to me that you know for sure the prices for it will be sooo inflated. I went over this multiple times. Quote how do you think other companies stay in business? people still buy lucky charms even with the choice to buy the generic. people WILL pay for the better quality item/the more expensive item. this is proven in everything. i shouldn't have to tell you that. EVERYONE DOES IT. People also look for the biggest discount possible. If people find lucky charms for $5 and lucky charms for $10, they will purchase the $5 product. Quote less people will be interested in the dealers anyway. say it's 9pm and i decide last minute that i want to get high.. i would rather conveniently go to the really close gas station than have to drive to my dealer to save a few bucks. That's the issue though. You can't have your gas station selling weed, because they could easily sell their own supply for far less than the government taxed supply and we wouldn't even notice, thereby defeating the whole purpose of taxing it. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:09:54 pm ok i'm not finished:
Prove that the demand will disappear. Prove that people will pay an inflated price on weed. You still haven't done that. sure i'll just conduct a national survey "WOULD YOU PAY AN EXTRA $_??_ FOR WIID" just so YOU can have your "REAL" proof. /sarcasm.do you realize that no matter what anyone voted, it wouldn't convey what would REALLY happen??? that's like saying you would never ever cheat on your girlfriend, but then YA DO. people might think they are going to grow a plant, but then it becomes legalized and they realized they're too lazy. people might think they would never support the cartels, but then they are too cheap so they buy it from them anyway people might think they would buy it cheap, but then they realize the stuff at the gas station is sooooo much better etc. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 02:14:30 pm Which is why it's not fucking feasible for it to be legalized. Thank you for finally reaching that conclusion.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:20:57 pm Quote also, please prove to me that you know for sure the prices for it will be sooo inflated. I went over this multiple times. Quote how do you think other companies stay in business? people still buy lucky charms even with the choice to buy the generic. people WILL pay for the better quality item/the more expensive item. this is proven in everything. i shouldn't have to tell you that. EVERYONE DOES IT. People also look for the biggest discount possible. If people find lucky charms for $5 and lucky charms for $10, they will purchase the $5 product. Quote less people will be interested in the dealers anyway. say it's 9pm and i decide last minute that i want to get high.. i would rather conveniently go to the really close gas station than have to drive to my dealer to save a few bucks. That's the issue though. You can't have your gas station selling weed, because they could easily sell their own supply for far less than the government taxed supply and we wouldn't even notice, thereby defeating the whole purpose of taxing it. the gas station would not get away with selling their own. and you will not be able to prove that it will so don't even bother defending it. no manager is going to allow their employees to illegally sell their stuff [unless they live in hickville]. and problem fixed: sell it at a 24 hour pharmacy. yes, people look for the biggest discount, but if i buy it in stores, i know my wiid is safe and doesn't have a whole bunch of junk in it that i don't want. w/e you're a cartel supporting ph@ggot as far as i'm concerned. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:23:32 pm Which is why it's not fucking feasible for it to be legalized. Thank you for finally reaching that conclusion. what are you even talking about??just bc i said no survey is going to determine accurate results makes legalizing wiid not feasible?? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE for people to go to jail bc of a PLANT /END. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 02:24:31 pm I support cartels by not purchasing their products? Makes sense.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:28:59 pm you support cartels by acknowledging that wiid isn't a bad drug (at least at the same standard as alcohol and tobacco) and still not wanting to legalize it.
your economic logic is just much more important than the safety of human lives. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 02:30:48 pm A poor economic state is bad for the safety of human lives.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:31:37 pm too bad your economic logic probably is wrong :"(
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 02:33:18 pm I don't work in probables.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:44:26 pm you're so in denial.
wiid will make money. turbo said something about less funding to dea = saves money less people in jail = saves money flavored wiid/quality safe wiid/thc pills/wiid goodies/wiid blunts perfectly like a cigarette/conveniently in pharmacy or store = people WILL buy it + jobs ARE created. yes, some people will grow their own and some will sell it, etc. not going to be a big problem like you think it is. a lot of people actually like to try to stay out of trouble and follow the law. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:51:14 pm THE REAL CONSEQUENCES you should be thinking about are:
omg if we legalize wiid, it will be more common for 18 year olds to sell to high schoolers for double the price. not that it matters if they make profit bc people under 18 shouldn't be smoking anyway. i'm just saying youngys will be more capable of getting their hands on wiid, which is bad. but they already are so is it really that bad? Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 02:55:03 pm you're so in denial. wiid will make money. turbo said something about less funding to dea = saves money less people in jail = saves money flavored wiid/quality safe wiid/thc pills/wiid goodies/wiid blunts perfectly like a cigarette/conveniently in pharmacy or store = people WILL buy it + jobs ARE created. yes, some people will grow their own and some will sell it, etc. not going to be a big problem like you think it is. a lot of people actually like to try to stay out of trouble and follow the law. Every single one of those points is an assumption. You don't make decisions on assumptions. That's how you make poor decisions. You need confidence intervals, which don't exist at this point in time. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 02:56:07 pm please tell me how your economic logic isn't an assumption?? how is it ANY better than "my economic logic."
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:00:27 pm It is an assumption, but we aren't making any changes to the current system. That's the status quo.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:02:56 pm but wiid became illegal in the first place bc of assumptions.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:06:09 pm Fantastic. That's the past. I can't change that.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:10:25 pm lol @ acting like you can "make changes"
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:11:43 pm You're arguments are so devoid of logic it's terrifying.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:15:01 pm funny, i think the same of yours.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:20:47 pm You haven't the faintest idea of how decision analysis works and yet here you are posting assumptions that prove that weed should be legalized? Once you can devise a formal opinion with legitimate facts and evidence that proves that weed is beneficial to the economy and the people, feel free to post your opinion. Until then, the status quo is the only feasible option.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:33:15 pm no, you're absolutely ridiculous to even make a topic about it if all you are going to do is act like you're so smart and right. you should already know we can't get legitimate facts and evidence when it is illegal at the federal level. w/e cartel supporter.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:39:36 pm Here's an idea to stop cartels: Make the punishment more intense. Start handing out life sentences or death penalties to those who are charged with possession of marijuana. Legalizing the drug isn't the only thing that is capable of decimating the cartels.
Are you for this idea? If not, you must be a cartel supporter. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:41:59 pm it's not even about it being beneficial to the economy. it's about people getting punished bc of a plant.
you still are making assumptions in thinking it will hurt the economy, so stop attacking me for saying it actually might not hurt the economy. it may hurt it, it may not. but legalizing will definitely mean people aren't going to jail simply bc of the green. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 11, 2012, 03:44:08 pm ^ Dr. Gearson; Gearson thearapy. Doctors in the US are shunned from the medical community for condoning it, using it, practicing it, etc...that's why their institute is in Mexico. After reading up on Dr. Gerson, I can't believe you just said that like it's a bad thing. The reason his practice isn't allowed in the US is, first of all, that it's absolutely crazy. And secondly because there's no evidence whatsoever that it works. And I can't believe that a person as competent as you would assume that I thought it was a bad thing. I gave no such notion and in fact, don't think the therapy is a "cure", myself. I only stated that because you wanted to hault Keihan's conspiracy theory. Also, for the sake of conversation, define "crazy", please. Who is in charge of defining the therapy as "crazy" and what does it mean? Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:44:43 pm You support cartels since you're against harsher punishment.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:45:35 pm Here's an idea to stop cartels: Make the punishment more intense. Start handing out life sentences or death penalties to those who are charged with possession of ****. Legalizing the drug isn't the only thing that is capable of decimating the cartels. life sentences and death penalties ARE expensive. and that just encourages my whole point of people dying and going to jail bc of a plant. YOU'RE DUMB.Are you for this idea? If not, you must be a cartel supporter. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:46:30 pm Stop thinking about the economy and start thinking about stopping cartels, which you support since you're against harsher crimes. Money isn't everything Dopehead, god.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:47:53 pm whatever you think you did wasn't clever. sorry.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:48:19 pm You support cartels like a Republican fanboy, stop it.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:51:35 pm i'm not offended.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 03:53:57 pm That's the spirit! Embrace your inner cartel lover. Show them how you much you like them, since you know, you're totally against doing an illogical thing to stop them. The cartels don't even matter in the end, right? Because money is all we care about. Harsher punishments are too expensive and not worth stopping the cartels.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 03:58:49 pm you really can't control yourself now can you?
and this is a completely different argument so if you fail to see that, then i am discontinuing our conversation. i don't want anyone seeing me arguing with a 'tard. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:02:59 pm You placed so much emphasis on wanting to stop cartels, but when I raised a possible solution, you're suddenly okay with cartels. You seriously fail to see the irony in this? You don't give a flying **** about the cartels, and if you did, you would have never purchased any weed products, since you're thereby supporting the industry they dominate. You just want to be able to smoke weed in peace, which is a totally separate argument.
Stop hiding your true beliefs on a subject with something you don't actually care about to make yourself seem like a better person. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 04:05:12 pm i already said so myself that purchasing wiid supported the cartels.
but you know what, since you're gonna act like harsher punishment is the solution, we should just put death penalty as punishment for everyone who breaks the law. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:06:18 pm Hence why I am for harsher punishments on so many things. The death penalty is underused.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 04:07:45 pm and everyone right now should be able to buy wiid, bc it's un-rightfully illegal.
if it was legal and people still bought from them, then that's different. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 04:09:56 pm Hence why I am for harsher punishments on so many things. The death penalty is underused. go move somewhere else then. america doesn't want you. harsher punishments are VERY VERY VERY expensive and you are trying to say you're for america's economic growth? ooooookk. i'm very done with this conversation. you're one of those people who thinks they are really intelligent...but they're not. sad. bye, douche. have a nice life. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:11:06 pm I don't live in America. The death penalty in a humane way is expensive. The cost of a bullet to shoot Paul Bernado in the face is cheap.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 04:13:15 pm I don't live in America. The death penalty in a humane way is expensive. The cost of a bullet to shoot Paul Bernado in the face is cheap. ok maybe you should actually understand why the death penalty is expensive.really, why do i bother replying. i want to help you, but you're just so unwilling to understand. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:16:28 pm The cost of the death penalty is expensive because we are forced to go through an extremely long trial process. For example, James Holmes could appeal a few thousand times and remain alive for years without being killed, when really, he shouldn't be given that opportunity. We are giving rights to people who don't deserve rights which makes the cost of the death penalty extremely high.
So let's use my favourite example. Paul Bernardo is in jail right now, and he's not getting out. He's been through the trial process. Here's an idea, instead of letting him sit there, let's get rid of him, no trial, no nothing. Gone. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 11, 2012, 04:16:40 pm I'm just thinking out loud here, but I could totally envision the cartels becoming the modern mafia if its legalized. Like, they will strong arm businesses and have them pay "security fees" so that nothing "bad"happens to them. Ya know?
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 04:20:31 pm The cost of the death penalty is expensive because we are forced to go through an extremely long trial process. For example, James Holmes could appeal a few thousand times and remain alive for years without being killed, when really, he shouldn't be given that opportunity. We are giving rights to people who don't deserve rights which makes the cost of the death penalty extremely high. i know why the death penalty is expensive, thank you very much. but please stop acting like you're the god of ethics saying that people don't deserve rights and it's obvious that they should be given the death penalty. gg black and white world.So let's use my favourite example. Paul Bernardo is in jail right now, and he's not getting out. He's been through the trial process. Here's an idea, instead of letting him sit there, let's get rid of him, no trial, no nothing. Gone. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:22:26 pm Do the people Bernardo viciously raped and killed currently have rights? Nope.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Laughing Turd on August 11, 2012, 04:24:54 pm I don't have much to add but I doubt these cartel guys are scared of death. Death isn't really a "harsh" punishment for them. Look at the kinds of things they do to each other. I think that if anything, they pray that the state kills them in a more humane way.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: guest25 on August 11, 2012, 04:25:33 pm ok 1) this is too off-topic
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:27:24 pm I don't have much to add but I doubt these cartel guys are scared of death. Death isn't really a "harsh" punishment for them. Look at the kinds of things they do to each other. I think that if anything, they pray that the state kills them in a more humane way. Not saying we go directly after the cartels, I'm saying we go after the users. If the users stop, the cartels stop, but the users don't actually care about stopping the cartels, they just want their fix. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Laughing Turd on August 11, 2012, 04:32:57 pm I think that's where the big divide is though. I guess a growing number of people these days just aren't agreeing that smoking a harmless plant warrants a jail sentence.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 04:34:05 pm It's clearly not harmless, cartels are creating a ton of issues.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 05:08:58 pm You placed so much emphasis on wanting to stop cartels, but when I raised a possible solution, you're suddenly okay with cartels. You seriously fail to see the irony in this? You don't give a flying **** about the cartels, and if you did, you would have never purchased any weed products, since you're thereby supporting the industry they dominate. You just want to be able to smoke weed in peace, which is a totally separate argument. Stop hiding your true beliefs on a subject with something you don't actually care about to make yourself seem like a better person. there are better solutions than the crappy one you proposed, dumbass. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 11, 2012, 05:26:10 pm You placed so much emphasis on wanting to stop cartels, but when I raised a possible solution, you're suddenly okay with cartels. You seriously fail to see the irony in this? You don't give a flying **** about the cartels, and if you did, you would have never purchased any weed products, since you're thereby supporting the industry they dominate. You just want to be able to smoke weed in peace, which is a totally separate argument. Stop hiding your true beliefs on a subject with something you don't actually care about to make yourself seem like a better person. there are better solutions than the ****ty one you proposed, dumbass. Solid response. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 11, 2012, 05:28:17 pm And I can't believe that a person as competent as you would assume that I thought it was a bad thing. In the context you gave it, it was what you implied. Let's not lie to ourselves. Quote I gave no such notion and in fact, don't think the therapy is a "cure", myself. Swell. Quote I only stated that because you wanted to hault Keihan's conspiracy theory. ... By presenting another? Quote Also, for the sake of conversation, define "crazy", please. Dictionaries exist for a reason. Anyway, "not sane". Quote Who is in charge of defining the therapy as "crazy" and what does it mean? In the case of your example, anyone who has ever heard of the scientific method or taken a freshmen biology course would define "crazy" as this dude's therapy. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 05:29:06 pm You placed so much emphasis on wanting to stop cartels, but when I raised a possible solution, you're suddenly okay with cartels. You seriously fail to see the irony in this? You don't give a flying **** about the cartels, and if you did, you would have never purchased any weed products, since you're thereby supporting the industry they dominate. You just want to be able to smoke weed in peace, which is a totally separate argument. Stop hiding your true beliefs on a subject with something you don't actually care about to make yourself seem like a better person. there are better solutions than the ****ty one you proposed, dumbass. Solid response. Such as? Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 11, 2012, 05:41:29 pm And I can't believe that a person as competent as you would assume that I thought it was a bad thing. In the context you gave it, it was what you implied. Let's not lie to ourselves. Quote I gave no such notion and in fact, don't think the therapy is a "cure", myself. Swell. Quote I only stated that because you wanted to hault Keihan's conspiracy theory. ... By presenting another? Quote Also, for the sake of conversation, define "crazy", please. Dictionaries exist for a reason. Anyway, "not sane". Quote Who is in charge of defining the therapy as "crazy" and what does it mean? In the case of your example, anyone who has ever heard of the scientific method or taken a freshmen biology course would define "crazy" as this dude's therapy. How cute, you pointlessly disected my post. Anyway, you assumed something and I'm telling you that you're wrong, Dr. Phil. Also, id call the use of radiation less sane than consuming a boatload of veggies and nutritious food. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 05:54:01 pm You placed so much emphasis on wanting to stop cartels, but when I raised a possible solution, you're suddenly okay with cartels. You seriously fail to see the irony in this? You don't give a flying **** about the cartels, and if you did, you would have never purchased any weed products, since you're thereby supporting the industry they dominate. You just want to be able to smoke weed in peace, which is a totally separate argument. Stop hiding your true beliefs on a subject with something you don't actually care about to make yourself seem like a better person. there are better solutions than the ****ty one you proposed, dumbass. Solid response. Such as? ... you're so entrenched in your **** stupid viewpoint it's a waste of time to try. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 06:00:22 pm I'm waiting.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 06:13:21 pm we've been over this you **** inbred pile of redundant protoplasm.
1. Legalize MJ 2. Takes away majority of US demand for MJ 3. Cartels lose majority of subscription base. 4. Cartels scramble... no where to go... not as much demand for harder drugs... 5. Cartels inevitably lose power, much like Al Capone and co. did after prohibition. 6. Less power to the cartels = less headless bodies on the side of the road. but you're a **** Republican, so if it doesn't happen in the good ole USA it doesn't matter, sorry i forgot. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 11, 2012, 06:20:06 pm What happens inside the USA doesn't really matter either. You still can't prove those assumptions though. You've got your head so far up your own asshole right now. PRove that the demand will decrease, prove that cartels will have no where to go. Why would the demand in the US change if the price of weed sky rockets? People aren't afraid to commit a crime now, why would they in the future?
There's better alternatives than legalizing weed to destroy cartels, but you are all so fucking obsessed with the plant that all you care about is getting it. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Zero254 on August 11, 2012, 08:09:47 pm Why should it be illegal if they make fake weed
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 09:25:48 pm People aren't afraid to commit a crime now, why would they in the future? prove it prove it mothafucka like ss dope said, no one will know until it's legalized, which it will sometime in the future because people will stop listening to dipshits like you Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 11, 2012, 09:29:46 pm How cute, you pointlessly disected my post. You seem upset. Quote Anyway, you assumed something and I'm telling you that you're wrong, Dr. Phil. No, I inferred what you implied. If you didn't mean to imply that Dr Gerson's treatment was viable but shunned in response to my claim that any scientist who discovered a cure for cancer would not be bought out, then perhaps you ought to word things like that a little differently. Quote Also, id call the use of radiation less sane than consuming a boatload of veggies and nutritious food. Then I'd call you scientifically illiterate. Radiation therapy works. We have repeatable experiments that prove this. Eating vegetables is a preventative measure for basically just colon cancer; it's not a treatment for any kind of cancer. Not only that, but Dr. Gerson's "treatment" isn't even remotely backed up by any scientific experimentation whatsoever. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 11, 2012, 10:33:35 pm Quote You seem upset. Funny, cause you "seemed" upset yourself. Go figureAgain, I mentioned him because of the conspiracy theory. I know that most of the studies are clinical and were his, and that's why I'm not a firm believer in the therapy. But if/when someone claims there is a cure then the medical/pharmacutical community may not like it very much seeing as how much money is made on "medicine" and chemo. I can understand why they don't want people to be healthy; it hurts their wallets. Also, radiation therapy isn't 100% effective either and makes some people very very ill. I've had relatives who've died from cancer after failed chemo attempts and the canceer wasn't even advanced. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 11, 2012, 10:55:18 pm early detection leads to cures
bam Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 11, 2012, 11:00:09 pm Quote You seem upset. Funny, cause you "seemed" upset yourself. Go figureNah. You're projecting. Quote Again, I mentioned him because of the conspiracy theory. I know that most of the studies are clinical and were his, and that's why I'm not a firm believer in the therapy. But if/when someone claims there is a cure then the medical/pharmacutical community may not like it very much seeing as how much money is made on "medicine" and chemo. I can understand why they don't want people to be healthy; it hurts their wallets. He's not an example of this, though. He's an example of a conman who was rightfully barred from deceiving people in the US. Bringing it up was almost irrelevant. Quote Also, radiation therapy isn't 100% effective either and makes some people very very ill. I've had relatives who've died from cancer after failed chemo attempts and the canceer wasn't even advanced. No shit. If something that cured cancer was 100% effective, we wouldn't have cancer. But effective is effective even if its success rate isn't perfect, and experimentally and clinically proven to work is better than "Hmm, I feel like this person has a good chance of recovery based on how they appeared coming into my program and leaving it", which is what "Dr." Gerson did. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 12, 2012, 12:08:52 am Quote But effective is effective even if its success rate isn't perfect, and experimentally and clinically proven to work is better than "Hmm, I feel like this person has a good chance of recovery based on how they appeared coming into my program and leaving it", which is what "Dr." Gerson did. Not entirely acurate. Many people have attributed his program to the recession of their cancer, personally, so although minute on a grand scale of succes, can't the same principle of effectiveness apply? Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: wtZzz on August 12, 2012, 12:26:26 am Nearly every decision made in government is based on assumptions. This is why many programs fail.
We make decisions to try and improve upon the current system. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Remember the prohibition? That didn't last long. Everything is based on assumptions... economic policy, foreign policy, healthcare programs, etc. At least some assumptions are more well reasoned than others. Your topic claims that you have depth and analysis? Your only argument is that we don't have a time machine to prove that the benefits of legal wiid are real. Good stuff, you win moron. I have no time machine, and I am not going to waste my time surveying the nation on wiid. Eventually, our society is going to vote it legal, unfortunately, a few more old people need to die off first so the younger voters gain control. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 12, 2012, 12:51:41 am Wrong. Extensive market research is done. Doing market research on a black market isn't letting getting information about health care.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Keihan on August 12, 2012, 07:13:19 am More and more people are believing in a holistic approach to treating cancer, such as living a healthier lifestyle (more fruits/vegetables, natural/organic foods and meditation).
The thing about that "doctor" is putting castor oil up your anus. dafuq? Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 12, 2012, 10:16:56 am Quote But effective is effective even if its success rate isn't perfect, and experimentally and clinically proven to work is better than "Hmm, I feel like this person has a good chance of recovery based on how they appeared coming into my program and leaving it", which is what "Dr." Gerson did. Not entirely acurate. Many people have attributed his program to the recession of their cancer, personally, so although minute on a grand scale of succes, can't the same principle of effectiveness apply? No. Any number of variables could have influenced the recession of their cancer (which, by the way, hasn't been proven. Did you read the excerpts I gave to you? The median lifespan of this Dr's patients after his treatment was abysmal, and all but one of them died from their cancers.). That's why independent laboratory and clinical trials are important. Personal anecdotes are not proof. These people are not doctors. They do not have a say in whether or not X treatment cured Y illness that will hold any weight to anyone who isn't also deluded. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 12, 2012, 11:49:44 am Ok, so now that Gerson is ruled out, what are your thoughts on a conspiracy theory? If a cure exists or came to pass, do you think the medical community would embrase it with open arms?
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Turboweasle on August 12, 2012, 01:46:01 pm Yes.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 12, 2012, 01:58:59 pm Ok...good talk. :D
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: dudedudedude for Moderator on August 12, 2012, 01:59:58 pm Medical community sure, the Bilderbergs though...
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: the KR3AT3R on August 12, 2012, 02:51:42 pm Exactly. I should have worded it differently. :P
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Zero254 on August 14, 2012, 04:44:30 am ha ha they will charge a **** million dollars for the cure as a way to ensure sheep will be controlled.
Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: sethy on August 14, 2012, 10:12:10 pm Magic Johnson has been able to survive with AIDS/HIV (i don't remember which and can't be **** checking, it's just about the same go anyways) for how long on top of the line care for it? The technology/antibiotics surely can be produced cheaper, most things can be produced cheaper than when it's first researched...
I can see the cancer cure being suppressed for more monay for companies... Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: Paranoid71 on August 15, 2012, 12:24:59 am not sure if srs.
if srs, what turbo said. Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: MG Maxdaddy on August 17, 2012, 06:04:27 pm I thought this video was pretty informative. It's an hour and a half long, but it's worth a watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnFJYxCx7zk&list=FLi6FYb4iH_OeAkDdYhGLoeQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video Title: Re: An in depth analysis of why Weed should not be legalized Post by: New Oomomo on April 18, 2016, 10:55:10 am lol |